What is CHKDSK telling me?

[Ajax Jones]

Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to suspect
hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual
chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and
computer response seems very slow.

My operating system is WinXP Pro, latest version. I ran CHKDSK twice and
each time it hangs up at step 4 of 5. It successfully verifies files,
indexes and security descriptors. At step 4, verifying file date, it never
moves beyond 0% completed.

I'm not a technician and I really don't know how to proceed. I suspect I may
be able to do a complete backup of the disk to a buslink exterior drive
using Retrospect Express.

Are there further steps I can perform here? Am I looking at replacing the
drive? If so, where do I look for a best buy? I see my receipt is dated Feb
24, 2004; however, I bought a 3 year extension to the warranty, so that may
help me.

Any suggestions about how to proceed appreciated!

--

Bob Boudewyns
Boudewyns@Gmail.com

[John Pollard]

"Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote in
news:lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21:
Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to suspect hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and computer response seems very slow. My operating system is WinXP Pro, latest version. I ran CHKDSK twice and each time it hangs up at step 4 of 5. It successfully verifies files, indexes and security descriptors. At step 4, verifying file date, it never moves beyond 0% completed. I'm not a technician and I really don't know how to proceed. I suspect I may be able to do a complete backup of the disk to a buslink exterior drive using Retrospect Express. Are there further steps I can perform here? Am I looking at replacing the drive? If so, where do I look for a best buy? I see my receipt is dated Feb 24, 2004; however, I bought a 3 year extension to the warranty, so that may help me. Any suggestions about how to proceed appreciated!

I sounds very much like your hard drive is failing. Chattering and slow
response probably means the PC is having to do retry reads and writes several
times.

1) Your top priority should be to backup all of your user data and settings
as soon as possible.

2) As you have warranty cover, call the warranty provider and report the
symptoms.

3) Assuming the fault is confirmed, the warranty provider will take your PC
away and fix it, returning it to in pristine staright-from-the-factory
condition. Hence the importance of step 1) :-)

[Ben Myers]

Yes! Absolutely! There have been too many horror stories of systems going away
for warranty service and even a completely different system sent back to the
owner. At best, you get back your original system with the operating system
reloaded, but none of the applications you installed, none of the myriad of
Windows updates installed, and none of your personal data.

Just to confirm your suspicions, I would also determine the manufacturer of the
system (Device Manager under System icon in Control Panel), download the
manufacturer's hard drive diagnostics, and run the non-destructive diagnostic
tests. In some cases, the diagnostics are able to replace the bad sectors
(blocks of data) with spares, improving performance and sometimes make it
possible to back up the entire image of the hard drive... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:45:48 GMT, McSpreader <invalid@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote innews:lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21: Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to suspect hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and computer response seems very slow. My operating system is WinXP Pro, latest version. I ran CHKDSK twice and each time it hangs up at step 4 of 5. It successfully verifies files, indexes and security descriptors. At step 4, verifying file date, it never moves beyond 0% completed. I'm not a technician and I really don't know how to proceed. I suspect I may be able to do a complete backup of the disk to a buslink exterior drive using Retrospect Express. Are there further steps I can perform here? Am I looking at replacing the drive? If so, where do I look for a best buy? I see my receipt is dated Feb 24, 2004; however, I bought a 3 year extension to the warranty, so that may help me. Any suggestions about how to proceed appreciated!I sounds very much like your hard drive is failing. Chattering and slowresponse probably means the PC is having to do retry reads and writes severaltimes.1) Your top priority should be to backup all of your user data and settingsas soon as possible.2) As you have warranty cover, call the warranty provider and report thesymptoms.3) Assuming the fault is confirmed, the warranty provider will take your PCaway and fix it, returning it to in pristine staright-from-the-factorycondition. Hence the importance of step 1) :-)

[John Pollard]

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in
news:431b96d5.21473568@nntp.charter.net:
Just to confirm your suspicions, I would also determine the manufacturer of the system (Device Manager under System icon in Control Panel), download the manufacturer's hard drive diagnostics, and run the non-destructive diagnostic tests.

....but do the user data backup first!

[Ben Myers]

Well, yes and no. I suppose the proper sequence is:

1. Back up the user data.
2. Run diagnostics.
3. Attempt to back up entire drive image, after bad sectors are relocated.

On the other hand, if backup of user data is unsuccessful or incomplete, run
diagnostics in hope that the right bad sectors get fixed so a subsequent backup
will succeed.

You can play it both ways. I seem to be doing a lot of drive replacements for
people of late, and I have had a pretty good success rate (100%) with user data.
The hard part is telling the client that the OS needs to be reloaded on a new
drive, followed by reinstallation of all software applications. The savvy and
knowledgeable people understand why. The fairly naive folks do not.

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 01:24:02 GMT, McSpreader <invalid@hotmail.com> wrote:
ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote innews:431b96d5.21473568@nntp.charter.net: Just to confirm your suspicions, I would also determine the manufacturer of the system (Device Manager under System icon in Control Panel), download the manufacturer's hard drive diagnostics, and run the non-destructive diagnostic tests....but do the user data backup first!

[Rich Webb]

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 22:53:05 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to suspecthard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusualchattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, andcomputer response seems very slow.My operating system is WinXP Pro, latest version. I ran CHKDSK twice andeach time it hangs up at step 4 of 5. It successfully verifies files,indexes and security descriptors. At step 4, verifying file date, it nevermoves beyond 0% completed.

Many modern drives support so-called S.M.A.R.T technology. You might
need to enable it via the BIOS. There are several utilities that make
use of the info. One that's free to individuals and seems OK is at
http://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

[Ben Myers]

Thank you. Looks interesting. There is a DOS-oriented program to read out
the SMART data values, in the situation where Windows is not bootable.
Unfortunately, a great many of the useful diagnostic-type programs today assume
that Windows is working properly, when, in fact, people often need to drill down
into the hardware or software to figure out why Windows is NOT working.

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 02:43:39 GMT, Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 22:53:05 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to suspecthard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusualchattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, andcomputer response seems very slow.My operating system is WinXP Pro, latest version. I ran CHKDSK twice andeach time it hangs up at step 4 of 5. It successfully verifies files,indexes and security descriptors. At step 4, verifying file date, it nevermoves beyond 0% completed.Many modern drives support so-called S.M.A.R.T technology. You mightneed to enable it via the BIOS. There are several utilities that makeuse of the info. One that's free to individuals and seems OK is athttp://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm--Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

[John Pollard]

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in
news:431ba28e.24475025@nntp.charter.net:
Well, yes and no. I suppose the proper sequence is: 1. Back up the user data. 2. Run diagnostics. 3. Attempt to back up entire drive image, after bad sectors are relocated. On the other hand, if backup of user data is unsuccessful or incomplete, run diagnostics in hope that the right bad sectors get fixed so a subsequent backup will succeed. You can play it both ways. I seem to be doing a lot of drive replacements for people of late, and I have had a pretty good success rate (100%) with user data. The hard part is telling the client that the OS needs to be reloaded on a new drive, followed by reinstallation of all software applications. The savvy and knowledgeable people understand why. The fairly naive folks do not. ... Ben Myers

I think we are in violent agreement :-)

BTW: My disk graveyard contains mostly Maxtors at present, is that
your experience too?

[Ben Myers]

Maxtor is one of the leaders in failed disk technology. Also IBM DeathStars and
Toshiba 2.5" notebook drives.

Fujitsu, Seagate and Hitachi seem to crap out the least, in that order. WD is
so-so. Samsungs, I won't touch, due to life-long trauma caused by experiences
when they first began making drives... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:50:58 GMT, McSpreader <invalid@hotmail.com> wrote:
ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote innews:431ba28e.24475025@nntp.charter.net: Well, yes and no. I suppose the proper sequence is: 1. Back up the user data. 2. Run diagnostics. 3. Attempt to back up entire drive image, after bad sectors are relocated. On the other hand, if backup of user data is unsuccessful or incomplete, run diagnostics in hope that the right bad sectors get fixed so a subsequent backup will succeed. You can play it both ways. I seem to be doing a lot of drive replacements for people of late, and I have had a pretty good success rate (100%) with user data. The hard part is telling the client that the OS needs to be reloaded on a new drive, followed by reinstallation of all software applications. The savvy and knowledgeable people understand why. The fairly naive folks do not. ... Ben MyersI think we are in violent agreement :-)BTW: My disk graveyard contains mostly Maxtors at present, is thatyour experience too?

[Rich Webb]

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 03:26:13 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:
Thank you. Looks interesting. There is a DOS-oriented program to read outthe SMART data values, in the situation where Windows is not bootable.Unfortunately, a great many of the useful diagnostic-type programs today assumethat Windows is working properly, when, in fact, people often need to drill downinto the hardware or software to figure out why Windows is NOT working.

True. In that case I'd boot to a CD-based OS, probably one of the many
Linux live CD releases, and use a tool like:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/smartmontools or
Linux on a floppy with S.M.A.R.T. tools included:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/smartlinux

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

[Ajax Jones]

This has been a very helpful conversation, folks. Thanks for your
participation!

--

"Rich Webb" <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote in message
news:u5noh15r9vh32jgfl2jpcsk2p3t6548h25@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 03:26:13 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
| (Ben Myers) wrote:
|
| >Thank you. Looks interesting. There is a DOS-oriented program to read
out
| >the SMART data values, in the situation where Windows is not bootable.
| >Unfortunately, a great many of the useful diagnostic-type programs today
assume
| >that Windows is working properly, when, in fact, people often need to
drill down
| >into the hardware or software to figure out why Windows is NOT working.
|
| True. In that case I'd boot to a CD-based OS, probably one of the many
| Linux live CD releases, and use a tool like:
| http://sourceforge.net/projects/smartmontools or
| Linux on a floppy with S.M.A.R.T. tools included:
| http://sourceforge.net/projects/smartlinux
|
| --
| Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

[Fred McKenzie]

In article <lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21>, "Ajax Jones"
<Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to suspect hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and computer response seems very slow.

Ajax-

The responses by others are probably correct, and you need to do an
expeditious backup!

However, there is one possibility no one mentioned. You could have some
kind of mal-ware operating in your computer. Did you run CHKDSK in safe
mode? Do you have virus protection that is kept up-to-date?

Just something to think about.

Fred

[Ajax Jones]

Interesting question, Fred!

I am doing a True Image backup right now. It's been running for 17 hours,
but is approaching the end!

When I invoked CHKDSK under WinXP it waited until a reboot to run it in a
semi DOS mode. I hope that would disable malware. My virus checking is
ongoing and up-to-date.

--

"Fred McKenzie" <fmmck@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fmmck-0509051237410001@ac9f5429.ipt.aol.com...
| In article <lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21>, "Ajax Jones"
| <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
|
| > Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to
suspect
| > hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual
| > chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and
| > computer response seems very slow.
|
| Ajax-
|
| The responses by others are probably correct, and you need to do an
| expeditious backup!
|
| However, there is one possibility no one mentioned. You could have some
| kind of mal-ware operating in your computer. Did you run CHKDSK in safe
| mode? Do you have virus protection that is kept up-to-date?
|
| Just something to think about.
|
| Fred

[Ben Myers]

The chattering hard drive is most likely to be a sign of drive failure, as is
the LONG backup time. Malware could cause the same symptoms, but I think it is
rather unlikely.

You DID disconnect the computer from the internet when doing the backup?

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:52:49 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
Interesting question, Fred!I am doing a True Image backup right now. It's been running for 17 hours,but is approaching the end!When I invoked CHKDSK under WinXP it waited until a reboot to run it in asemi DOS mode. I hope that would disable malware. My virus checking isongoing and up-to-date.--"Fred McKenzie" <fmmck@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:fmmck-0509051237410001@ac9f5429.ipt.aol.com...| In article <lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21>, "Ajax Jones"| <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:|| > Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun tosuspect| > hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual| > chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and| > computer response seems very slow.|| Ajax-|| The responses by others are probably correct, and you need to do an| expeditious backup!|| However, there is one possibility no one mentioned. You could have some| kind of mal-ware operating in your computer. Did you run CHKDSK in safe| mode? Do you have virus protection that is kept up-to-date?|| Just something to think about.|| Fred

[Ajax Jones]

Well, Ben, I did not disconnect from the internet during backup. What are
the implications?

The backup was done to an exterior BUSlink USB 1 drive. Took about 17 hours
to backup 27 GB. But it was successful.

I have downloaded a shareware program called Active SMART from
http://www.ariolic.com/activesmart/. It is currently monitoring my hd and
saying all is well. And peculiarly there is no chattering now. I'm uncertain
whether to take it in for replacement or wait for more specific symptoms.

Come to think of it the hang-up during CHKDSK is certainly a significant
symptom. Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and exchange the drive.

--

<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:431c9512.21351207@nntp.charter.net...
| The chattering hard drive is most likely to be a sign of drive failure, as
is
| the LONG backup time. Malware could cause the same symptoms, but I think
it is
| rather unlikely.
|
| You DID disconnect the computer from the internet when doing the backup?
|
| ... Ben Myers
|
| On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:52:49 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
|
| >Interesting question, Fred!
| >
| >I am doing a True Image backup right now. It's been running for 17 hours,
| >but is approaching the end!
| >
| >When I invoked CHKDSK under WinXP it waited until a reboot to run it in a
| >semi DOS mode. I hope that would disable malware. My virus checking is
| >ongoing and up-to-date.
| >
| >--
| >
| >"Fred McKenzie" <fmmck@aol.com> wrote in message
| >news:fmmck-0509051237410001@ac9f5429.ipt.aol.com...
| >| In article <lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21>, "Ajax Jones"
| >| <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
| >|
| >| > Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to
| >suspect
| >| > hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual
| >| > chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and
| >| > computer response seems very slow.
| >|
| >| Ajax-
| >|
| >| The responses by others are probably correct, and you need to do an
| >| expeditious backup!
| >|
| >| However, there is one possibility no one mentioned. You could have
some
| >| kind of mal-ware operating in your computer. Did you run CHKDSK in
safe
| >| mode? Do you have virus protection that is kept up-to-date?
| >|
| >| Just something to think about.
| >|
| >| Fred
| >
| >
|

[Ben Myers]

If some malware (trojan, spyware, etc.) is truly in your system at this time, it
could be doing its mischief while the computer is connected to the internet. A
lot of these programs "call home" or send out emails to everyone in your address
book, but only if the internet connection is alive and well.

The USB 1 external drive may account for the long backup time. USB 2 kicks up
the speed quite a bit.

Now that you have a backup, I'll suggest once again that you download the
manufacturer's diagnostics and do a complete non-destructive factory
recertification of the drive. If there are any bad sectors at all, replace the
drive. Or even more simply, the diagnostics may tell you to replace the drive.

If you do not have software to detect and remove malware, get some. Anti-virus
software packages (all of them: Norton, McAfee, Trend, etc) are struggling to
deal with malware. Spybot and Ad-Aware do a respectable job and they are free.

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:57:05 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
Well, Ben, I did not disconnect from the internet during backup. What arethe implications?The backup was done to an exterior BUSlink USB 1 drive. Took about 17 hoursto backup 27 GB. But it was successful.I have downloaded a shareware program called Active SMART fromhttp://www.ariolic.com/activesmart/. It is currently monitoring my hd andsaying all is well. And peculiarly there is no chattering now. I'm uncertainwhether to take it in for replacement or wait for more specific symptoms.Come to think of it the hang-up during CHKDSK is certainly a significantsymptom. Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and exchange the drive.--<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in messagenews:431c9512.21351207@nntp.charter.net...| The chattering hard drive is most likely to be a sign of drive failure, asis| the LONG backup time. Malware could cause the same symptoms, but I thinkit is| rather unlikely.|| You DID disconnect the computer from the internet when doing the backup?|| ... Ben Myers|| On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:52:49 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:|| >Interesting question, Fred!| >| >I am doing a True Image backup right now. It's been running for 17 hours,| >but is approaching the end!| >| >When I invoked CHKDSK under WinXP it waited until a reboot to run it in a| >semi DOS mode. I hope that would disable malware. My virus checking is| >ongoing and up-to-date.| >| >--| >| >"Fred McKenzie" <fmmck@aol.com> wrote in message| >news:fmmck-0509051237410001@ac9f5429.ipt.aol.com...| >| In article <lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21>, "Ajax Jones"| >| <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:| >|| >| > Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to| >suspect| >| > hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual| >| > chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and| >| > computer response seems very slow.| >|| >| Ajax-| >|| >| The responses by others are probably correct, and you need to do an| >| expeditious backup!| >|| >| However, there is one possibility no one mentioned. You could havesome| >| kind of mal-ware operating in your computer. Did you run CHKDSK insafe| >| mode? Do you have virus protection that is kept up-to-date?| >|| >| Just something to think about.| >|| >| Fred| >| >|

[Ben Myers]

One more comment, going back to your original posting. CHKDSK is woefully
inadequate as a hard drive diagnostic (I'm being kind to it today), because it
relies on a very imperfect Windows, rather than checking down literally at the
bare iron as a mfr's diagnostic will do. Sometimes Windows will insist that you
run CHKDSK (as after an incomplete), and you have no choice. It IS good as a
check on file system integrity, but not as a hardware diagnostic... Ben Myers

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:57:05 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:
Well, Ben, I did not disconnect from the internet during backup. What arethe implications?The backup was done to an exterior BUSlink USB 1 drive. Took about 17 hoursto backup 27 GB. But it was successful.I have downloaded a shareware program called Active SMART fromhttp://www.ariolic.com/activesmart/. It is currently monitoring my hd andsaying all is well. And peculiarly there is no chattering now. I'm uncertainwhether to take it in for replacement or wait for more specific symptoms.Come to think of it the hang-up during CHKDSK is certainly a significantsymptom. Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and exchange the drive.--<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in messagenews:431c9512.21351207@nntp.charter.net...| The chattering hard drive is most likely to be a sign of drive failure, asis| the LONG backup time. Malware could cause the same symptoms, but I thinkit is| rather unlikely.|| You DID disconnect the computer from the internet when doing the backup?|| ... Ben Myers|| On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:52:49 GMT, "Ajax Jones" <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:|| >Interesting question, Fred!| >| >I am doing a True Image backup right now. It's been running for 17 hours,| >but is approaching the end!| >| >When I invoked CHKDSK under WinXP it waited until a reboot to run it in a| >semi DOS mode. I hope that would disable malware. My virus checking is| >ongoing and up-to-date.| >| >--| >| >"Fred McKenzie" <fmmck@aol.com> wrote in message| >news:fmmck-0509051237410001@ac9f5429.ipt.aol.com...| >| In article <lVKSe.327310$xm3.150895@attbi_s21>, "Ajax Jones"| >| <Ajax@jones.net> wrote:| >|| >| > Friends, I have a Pavilion ZX5040US laptop. Recently I have begun to| >suspect| >| > hard disk problems. In the last few days there has been an unusual| >| > chattering sound intermittently from the interior of the laptop, and| >| > computer response seems very slow.| >|| >| Ajax-| >|| >| The responses by others are probably correct, and you need to do an| >| expeditious backup!| >|| >| However, there is one possibility no one mentioned. You could havesome| >| kind of mal-ware operating in your computer. Did you run CHKDSK insafe| >| mode? Do you have virus protection that is kept up-to-date?| >|| >| Just something to think about.| >|| >| Fred| >| >|