Income YTD graph issue

[Art]

Small but persistent annoyance in Q 2005 and previous versions: items
that aren't really income are included in the "Income Year-to-Date"
graph that shows up (if you select it) on your Home Page.

I'm talking about income in IRA's or 401k's, items like mutual-fund
dividends and Realized Gain from trades within these tax-deferred
accounts. They do not appear in the EasyAnswer Reports
"Income/Expense--YTD" graph and they can't be customized out of the
Home Page graph. They also (correctly) don't appear in the "Taxable
Income Year-to-Date" Home Page graph.

Including gains and dividends from tax-deferred accounts in YTD income
is misleading--you're forced to do mental arithmetic to get the
correct YTD totals. You may disagree and want to see these
tax-deferred items in the totals. Quicken ought to give us the option
to select what we want to see in this otherwise useful graph.

Art

[Doug Ellice]

Have you tried customizing the graph with respect to which accounts and
categories are included?
Doug


Art wrote: Small but persistent annoyance in Q 2005 and previous versions: items that aren't really income are included in the "Income Year-to-Date" graph that shows up (if you select it) on your Home Page. select what we want to see in this otherwise useful graph. .;.. Art

[LJ]

I setup a category called Deposit and made sure it didn't have a Tax Line
assigned to it. I use this for refunds or checks others have written to me
and I deposited in my accounts that aren't income for tax purposes.
Terry

"Doug Ellice" <DouglasSpamNotEllice@Comcast.NotSpam.net> wrote in message
news:YZqdncN7Jv6N1IzfRVn-3A@comcast.com... Have you tried customizing the graph with respect to which accounts and categories are included? Doug Art wrote: Small but persistent annoyance in Q 2005 and previous versions: items that aren't really income are included in the "Income Year-to-Date" graph that shows up (if you select it) on your Home Page. select what we want to see in this otherwise useful graph. .;.. Art

[Art]

The graphs that show up in Home Page evidently are not customizable,
unlike the ones under Reports and Graphs. You can customize the
contents of Home Page but not the graphs themselves, nor can you
substitute a Memorized graph or a Reports and Graphs graph for the
default Home Page graphs. I think!

Art


On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:58:00 -0500, Doug Ellice
<DouglasSpamNotEllice@Comcast.NotSpam.net> wrote:
Have you tried customizing the graph with respect to which accounts andcategories are included?DougArt wrote: Small but persistent annoyance in Q 2005 and previous versions: items that aren't really income are included in the "Income Year-to-Date" graph that shows up (if you select it) on your Home Page. select what we want to see in this otherwise useful graph. .;.. Art

[Art]

How do you get a graph for Income YTD using this info to show up on
Home Page?

Art

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:20:15 -0500, "Terry" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
I setup a category called Deposit and made sure it didn't have a Tax Lineassigned to it. I use this for refunds or checks others have written to meand I deposited in my accounts that aren't income for tax purposes.Terry"Doug Ellice" <DouglasSpamNotEllice@Comcast.NotSpam.net> wrote in messagenews:YZqdncN7Jv6N1IzfRVn-3A@comcast.com... Have you tried customizing the graph with respect to which accounts and categories are included? Doug Art wrote: Small but persistent annoyance in Q 2005 and previous versions: items that aren't really income are included in the "Income Year-to-Date" graph that shows up (if you select it) on your Home Page. select what we want to see in this otherwise useful graph. .;.. Art

[John Pollard]

Art wrote: The graphs that show up in Home Page evidently are not customizable, unlike the ones under Reports and Graphs. You can customize the contents of Home Page but not the graphs themselves, nor can you substitute a Memorized graph or a Reports and Graphs graph for the default Home Page graphs. I think!

I have been sort of following this thread and I think either you
or I are missing something.

1.) The "Income YTD" on the Home page isn't a graph, it's more
like a report.

2.) All of the true graphs which are available for the Home page
are customizable (well, I checked on 4, more or less randomly
selected, and they were all customizable).

3.) While "income" in tax advantaged accounts may not be
taxable, that doesn't mean it's not income.

4.) You say, "They do not appear in the EasyAnswer Reports
'Income/Expense--YTD' graph". But that is only the default; the
graph (and the report) can easily be customized to include tax
advantaged accounts.

5.) I don't understand the original complaint in light of the
fact that, as you noted, there is a separate "Taxable Income
YTD" report which does not show the tax-advantaged income from
reinvestments, etc. If you do not want to see "income" from tax
advantaged accounts, why don't you just use the Taxable YTD
Income report and leave the Income Year to Date report off the
screen completely. It sure looks like Intuit provided both
choices so those who wanted to see the "income" from their
IRA's, could see it and those who don't, don't have to.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

[Art]

(I always like to see a comment by John Pollard).

John--

Basically you're right on all counts; this "graph" is really a report,
other reports (and graphs) are available with a few keyclicks, and my
complaint is very picky. Still it bothers me not to be able to
customize the convenient Home Page reports (as opposed to "graphs") to
incorporate my own definition of Income. It may be quirky, but I
don't regard reinvested dividends in a tax-deferred IRA to be Income
in any practical sense, and their cash value is irrelevant. Such
amounts misleadingly inflate the Income YTD figure.

Also, there's no apparent option to add my own customized Easy Answer
report to the long list of fixed Home Page reports, so if you want to
see an at-a-glance report when the program opens, it's the default
report or nothing.

Finally, now the report is showing a mysterious entry and amount for
_RlzdGain, but I've realized no gains so far this year and the Easy
Answer Income/Expense and Category reports show no such entry. So
where does this mythical realized gain come from? Since you can't
customize the Home Page report or dig down into the sources of its
entries, there's no way to troubleshoot it.

Anyhow, many thanks for your valued input.

Art



On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:12:42 -0600, "John Pollard"
<invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
Art wrote: The graphs that show up in Home Page evidently are not customizable, unlike the ones under Reports and Graphs. You can customize the contents of Home Page but not the graphs themselves, nor can you substitute a Memorized graph or a Reports and Graphs graph for the default Home Page graphs. I think!I have been sort of following this thread and I think either youor I are missing something.1.) The "Income YTD" on the Home page isn't a graph, it's morelike a report.2.) All of the true graphs which are available for the Home pageare customizable (well, I checked on 4, more or less randomlyselected, and they were all customizable).3.) While "income" in tax advantaged accounts may not betaxable, that doesn't mean it's not income.4.) You say, "They do not appear in the EasyAnswer Reports'Income/Expense--YTD' graph". But that is only the default; thegraph (and the report) can easily be customized to include taxadvantaged accounts.5.) I don't understand the original complaint in light of thefact that, as you noted, there is a separate "Taxable IncomeYTD" report which does not show the tax-advantaged income fromreinvestments, etc. If you do not want to see "income" from taxadvantaged accounts, why don't you just use the Taxable YTDIncome report and leave the Income Year to Date report off thescreen completely. It sure looks like Intuit provided bothchoices so those who wanted to see the "income" from theirIRA's, could see it and those who don't, don't have to.--John PollardFirst initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot comPlease reply to newsgroup

[John Pollard]

Art wrote: (I always like to see a comment by John Pollard). John-- Basically you're right on all counts; this "graph" is really a report, other reports (and graphs) are available with a few keyclicks, and my complaint is very picky. Still it bothers me not to be able to customize the convenient Home Page reports (as opposed to "graphs") to incorporate my own definition of Income. It may be quirky, but I don't regard reinvested dividends in a tax-deferred IRA to be Income in any practical sense, and their cash value is irrelevant. Such amounts misleadingly inflate the Income YTD figure.

You do not say why using to Taxable Income YTD report on the
Home page does not work for you. Isn't the Taxable Income YTD
report just an already-customized report showing what you want
to see?

And if that doesn't do it for you, you could always submit a
product suggestion at Intuit's web site, though you probably
will have to convince them that it is worth doing.

Just a quick look suggests the reports/graphs that appear on the
Home screen (or the My Finances screen in earlier Q versions)
operate pretty much the same as they always have. Do you
believe that you have lost some functionality?
Also, there's no apparent option to add my own customized Easy Answer report to the long list of fixed Home Page reports, so if you want to see an at-a-glance report when the program opens, it's the default report or nothing.

You could suggest this to Intuit as well. But it's possible
that this might be more difficult than first meets the eye;
possibly some sort of screen space management issues, as the
usual reports/graphs we can create/customize in Quicken would
not seem to work well as objects on the Home screen.
Finally, now the report is showing a mysterious entry and amount for _RlzdGain, but I've realized no gains so far this year and the Easy Answer Income/Expense and Category reports show no such entry. So where does this mythical realized gain come from? Since you can't customize the Home Page report or dig down into the sources of its entries, there's no way to troubleshoot it.

Did you try an Investment Income report?

Did you try right-clicking the amount field in the
Income-Year-To-Date report then clicking "Report my Investment
Income"? And that does not show the detail for same _RlzdGain
that appeared on the parent report (You can even zoom from the
_RlzdGain line in the Investment Income report to see the
individual transactions)?

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

[Art]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:36:56 -0600, "John Pollard"
<invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
Art wrote: (I always like to see a comment by John Pollard). John-- Basically you're right on all counts; this "graph" is really a report, other reports (and graphs) are available with a few keyclicks, and my complaint is very picky. Still it bothers me not to be able to customize the convenient Home Page reports (as opposed to "graphs") to incorporate my own definition of Income. It may be quirky, but I don't regard reinvested dividends in a tax-deferred IRA to be Income in any practical sense, and their cash value is irrelevant. Such amounts misleadingly inflate the Income YTD figure.You do not say why using to Taxable Income YTD report on theHome page does not work for you. Isn't the Taxable Income YTDreport just an already-customized report showing what you wantto see?

You mean the Home Page Taxable Income YTD report is customizable?
How? I seem to be unable to call up any customizing options for it.
Does it draw its entries from a different, customizable report? That
would be a solution if true.
And if that doesn't do it for you, you could always submit aproduct suggestion at Intuit's web site, though you probablywill have to convince them that it is worth doing.

I've never convinced--no, I mean "persuaded" Intuit to do anything.
:o)
Just a quick look suggests the reports/graphs that appear on theHome screen (or the My Finances screen in earlier Q versions)operate pretty much the same as they always have. Do youbelieve that you have lost some functionality?

No, I noticed this issue in Q04 if not earlier (user since I can't
recall when but a long time, since Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money
program disappeared).
Also, there's no apparent option to add my own customized Easy Answer report to the long list of fixed Home Page reports, so if you want to see an at-a-glance report when the program opens, it's the default report or nothing.You could suggest this to Intuit as well. But it's possiblethat this might be more difficult than first meets the eye;possibly some sort of screen space management issues, as theusual reports/graphs we can create/customize in Quicken wouldnot seem to work well as objects on the Home screen.

Then that's the basic problem, I guess. Finally, now the report is showing a mysterious entry and amount for _RlzdGain, but I've realized no gains so far this year and the Easy Answer Income/Expense and Category reports show no such entry. So where does this mythical realized gain come from? Since you can't customize the Home Page report or dig down into the sources of its entries, there's no way to troubleshoot it.Did you try an Investment Income report?

Yes, and now I see the problem--the Realized Gain is from a mutual
fund swap in an IRA--which is not truly a realized gain because it is
not income and it is not a tax event, just some entries in a Form 5498
that gets filed and never looked at again. The only meaningful number
in an IRA (etc., other than contribution limits) is its cumulative
value when you begin taking taxable withdrawals. So it's the same
issue I began with--income of any sort within tax-deferred accounts is
in no way actual income, and I would like to know how much actual
money has come into my pockets, or at least into virtual pockets, like
taxable mutual fund dividends. Don't you want to know this figure for
youself? Don't you think it's silly to include non-income that you
never see and can't spend in YTD Income?

By the way, even the Investment Income report includes the vaporous
IRA "gain," and this report doesn't have the Home Page programmability
issues you mentioned above. I think Quicken is a bit insensitive to
the true nature of tax-deferred transactions and should be made
smarter.
Did you try right-clicking the amount field in theIncome-Year-To-Date report then clicking "Report my InvestmentIncome"? And that does not show the detail for same _RlzdGainthat appeared on the parent report (You can even zoom from the_RlzdGain line in the Investment Income report to see theindividual transactions)?
Sorry--you lost me here. I don't get any right-click options in the
Income YTD report in Home Page. But of course I can and did zoom in
the Investment Income report.

Art

[John Pollard]

Art wrote: You do not say why using to Taxable Income YTD report on the Home page does not work for you. Isn't the Taxable Income YTD report just an already-customized report showing what you want to see?
You mean the Home Page Taxable Income YTD report is customizable? How? I seem to be unable to call up any customizing options for it. Does it draw its entries from a different, customizable report? That would be a solution if true.

I said it is an "already-customized" report. You are
complaining that you don't want to see non-taxable income in the
report; the Taxable Income YTD report leaves out non-taxable
income. What more customization do you seek?
And if that doesn't do it for you, you could always submit a product suggestion at Intuit's web site, though you probably will have to convince them that it is worth doing. I've never convinced--no, I mean "persuaded" Intuit to do anything. o) Just a quick look suggests the reports/graphs that appear on the Home screen (or the My Finances screen in earlier Q versions) operate pretty much the same as they always have. Do you believe that you have lost some functionality? No, I noticed this issue in Q04 if not earlier (user since I can't recall when but a long time, since Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money program disappeared).

Income YTD has been present since at least Q2001. Taxable YTD
Income seems to have been introduced in Q2002; and as I have
suggested, it seems to be designed for just your desire.
Also, there's no apparent option to add my own customized Easy Answer report to the long list of fixed Home Page reports, so if you want to see an at-a-glance report when the program opens, it's the default report or nothing. You could suggest this to Intuit as well. But it's possible that this might be more difficult than first meets the eye; possibly some sort of screen space management issues, as the usual reports/graphs we can create/customize in Quicken would not seem to work well as objects on the Home screen. Then that's the basic problem, I guess. Finally, now the report is showing a mysterious entry and amount for _RlzdGain, but I've realized no gains so far this year and the Easy Answer Income/Expense and Category reports show no such entry. So where does this mythical realized gain come from? Since you can't customize the Home Page report or dig down into the sources of its entries, there's no way to troubleshoot it.
Did you try an Investment Income report?
Yes, and now I see the problem--the Realized Gain is from a mutual fund swap in an IRA--which is not truly a realized gain because it is not income and it is not a tax event, just some entries in a Form 5498 that gets filed and never looked at again. The only meaningful number in an IRA (etc., other than contribution limits) is its cumulative value when you begin taking taxable withdrawals. So it's the same issue I began with--income of any sort within tax-deferred accounts is in no way actual income, and I would like to know how much actual money has come into my pockets, or at least into virtual pockets, like taxable mutual fund dividends.
Don't you want to know this figure for youself?

It is available. I can't get everything I want to see on one
screen anyway. But see below.
Don't you think it's silly to include non-income that you never see and can't spend in YTD Income?

As I have said; non-taxable income is still income.

And if I want to see only taxable income, that is what the
Taxable YTD Income report is for.

And I think you are taking a fairly narrow view of what someone
else would want to see. You may not be eligible to start
receiving proceeds from your tax-advantaged accounts, but some
folks are. Not that they are nexessarily the only ones who
might like to see that non-taxable income; but for them it is
just available for their pockets as taxable income.
By the way, even the Investment Income report includes the vaporous IRA "gain," and this report doesn't have the Home Page programmability issues you mentioned above. I think Quicken is a bit insensitive to the true nature of tax-deferred transactions and should be made smarter.
Did you try right-clicking the amount field in the Income-Year-To-Date report then clicking "Report my Investment Income"? And that does not show the detail for same _RlzdGain that appeared on the parent report (You can even zoom from the _RlzdGain line in the Investment Income report to see the individual transactions)?
Sorry--you lost me here. I don't get any right-click options in the Income YTD report in Home Page. But of course I can and did zoom in the Investment Income report.

Sorry, I happened to be in Q2002 at the time (which does allow
right-clicking on amounts in Income YTD), and forgot about the
different versions. Q2004 oddly does not allow right-clicking
on Income YTD amounts, but does for Taxable YTD Income amounts.
Looks to me like a small bug, but I would be guessing, as I
don't know what Intuit's intentions were.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

[Art]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:21:29 -0600, "John Pollard"
<invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
Art wrote: You do not say why using to Taxable Income YTD report on the Home page does not work for you. Isn't the Taxable Income YTD report just an already-customized report showing what you want to see? You mean the Home Page Taxable Income YTD report is customizable? How? I seem to be unable to call up any customizing options for it. Does it draw its entries from a different, customizable report? That would be a solution if true.I said it is an "already-customized" report. You arecomplaining that you don't want to see non-taxable income in thereport; the Taxable Income YTD report leaves out non-taxableincome. What more customization do you seek?

The Taxable YTD report. is also careless on tax-free dividends. Not
counting income categories that can't be determined fully until the
companies' K-1's come in in February/March of the next year, some of
my stock income is in the form of non-taxable Return-of-Capital. I
schedule and enter these with the Return-of-Capital action, and
Quicken
adjusts my cost basis accurately behind the scenes. But still Quicken
puts that income (which is cash income and legitimately--in my
opinion--appears in Income YTD) into Taxable Income YTD and elsewhere,
throwing off the Tax Planner numbers and maybe some other numbers. I
would think any Return-of-Capital item would automatically be taken as
tax-free, even if the stock itself is in a taxable account.

Once again, I realize this is a fine point but it could be taken care
of with a little customization functionality in the Home Page reports.
And if that doesn't do it for you, you could always submit a product suggestion at Intuit's web site, though you probably will have to convince them that it is worth doing. I've never convinced--no, I mean "persuaded" Intuit to do anything. o) Just a quick look suggests the reports/graphs that appear on the Home screen (or the My Finances screen in earlier Q versions) operate pretty much the same as they always have. Do you believe that you have lost some functionality? No, I noticed this issue in Q04 if not earlier (user since I can't recall when but a long time, since Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money program disappeared).Income YTD has been present since at least Q2001. Taxable YTDIncome seems to have been introduced in Q2002; and as I havesuggested, it seems to be designed for just your desire.> Also, there's no apparent option to add my own customized> Easy> Answer> report to the long list of fixed Home Page reports, so if> you> want to> see an at-a-glance report when the program opens, it's the> default> report or nothing. You could suggest this to Intuit as well. But it's possible that this might be more difficult than first meets the eye; possibly some sort of screen space management issues, as the usual reports/graphs we can create/customize in Quicken would not seem to work well as objects on the Home screen. Then that's the basic problem, I guess.> Finally, now the report is showing a mysterious entry and> amount for> _RlzdGain, but I've realized no gains so far this year and> the> Easy> Answer Income/Expense and Category reports show no such> entry.> So> where does this mythical realized gain come from? Since you> can't> customize the Home Page report or dig down into the sources> of> its> entries, there's no way to troubleshoot it. Did you try an Investment Income report? Yes, and now I see the problem--the Realized Gain is from a mutual fund swap in an IRA--which is not truly a realized gain because it is not income and it is not a tax event, just some entries in a Form 5498 that gets filed and never looked at again. The only meaningful number in an IRA (etc., other than contribution limits) is its cumulative value when you begin taking taxable withdrawals. So it's the same issue I began with--income of any sort within tax-deferred accounts is in no way actual income, and I would like to know how much actual money has come into my pockets, or at least into virtual pockets, like taxable mutual fund dividends. Don't you want to know this figure for youself?It is available. I can't get everything I want to see on onescreen anyway. But see below. Don't you think it's silly to include non-income that you never see and can't spend in YTD Income?As I have said; non-taxable income is still income.And if I want to see only taxable income, that is what theTaxable YTD Income report is for.And I think you are taking a fairly narrow view of what someoneelse would want to see. You may not be eligible to startreceiving proceeds from your tax-advantaged accounts, but somefolks are. Not that they are nexessarily the only ones whomight like to see that non-taxable income; but for them it isjust available for their pockets as taxable income. By the way, even the Investment Income report includes the vaporous IRA "gain," and this report doesn't have the Home Page programmability issues you mentioned above. I think Quicken is a bit insensitive to the true nature of tax-deferred transactions and should be made smarter. Did you try right-clicking the amount field in the Income-Year-To-Date report then clicking "Report my Investment Income"? And that does not show the detail for same _RlzdGain that appeared on the parent report (You can even zoom from the _RlzdGain line in the Investment Income report to see the individual transactions)? Sorry--you lost me here. I don't get any right-click options in the Income YTD report in Home Page. But of course I can and did zoom in the Investment Income report.Sorry, I happened to be in Q2002 at the time (which does allowright-clicking on amounts in Income YTD), and forgot about thedifferent versions. Q2004 oddly does not allow right-clickingon Income YTD amounts, but does for Taxable YTD Income amounts.Looks to me like a small bug, but I would be guessing, as Idon't know what Intuit's intentions were.

I'm not sure what you mean about right-clicking on "amounts." The
amounts in Taxable Income YTD are not independent fields with zoom
capability (as in regular reports), and the only right-click actions
available are general actions like seeing Tax Planner, Net Worth
Report, or Category list.

Anyhow, many thanks for your detailed responses, which have helped me
learn some new things about Quicken 2005.

Art

[John Pollard]

Art wrote: Sorry, I happened to be in Q2002 at the time (which does allow right-clicking on amounts in Income YTD), and forgot about the different versions. Q2004 oddly does not allow right-clicking on Income YTD amounts, but does for Taxable YTD Income amounts. Looks to me like a small bug, but I would be guessing, as I don't know what Intuit's intentions were. I'm not sure what you mean about right-clicking on "amounts." The amounts in Taxable Income YTD are not independent fields with zoom capability (as in regular reports), and the only right-click actions available are general actions like seeing Tax Planner, Net Worth Report, or Category list.

In Q2002, one of those right-click actions was to "Report My
Investment Income". And, as I said, I had been looking at Q2002
when I sent the original post mentioning right-clicking on
amounts.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

[Art]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:42:18 -0600, "John Pollard"
<invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
Art wrote: Sorry, I happened to be in Q2002 at the time (which does allow right-clicking on amounts in Income YTD), and forgot about the different versions. Q2004 oddly does not allow right-clicking on Income YTD amounts, but does for Taxable YTD Income amounts. Looks to me like a small bug, but I would be guessing, as I don't know what Intuit's intentions were. I'm not sure what you mean about right-clicking on "amounts." The amounts in Taxable Income YTD are not independent fields with zoom capability (as in regular reports), and the only right-click actions available are general actions like seeing Tax Planner, Net Worth Report, or Category list.In Q2002, one of those right-click actions was to "Report MyInvestment Income". And, as I said, I had been looking at Q2002when I sent the original post mentioning right-clicking onamounts.

IN Q05 , Income YTD (Home Page) has no right-click menu, and the
right-click options for Taxable Income YTD are Report My Net Worth,
How will this income affect my taxes?, Audit Tax Categories, and Go to
Category List, all of which can be useful but none of which is
specific to the amounts shown or applicable to customizing the
report's display or data sources.

Art

[John Pollard]

Art wrote: IN Q05 , Income YTD (Home Page) has no right-click menu, and the right-click options for Taxable Income YTD are Report My Net Worth, How will this income affect my taxes?, Audit Tax Categories, and Go to Category List, all of which can be useful but none of which is specific to the amounts shown or applicable to customizing the report's display or data sources.

Since I have Q2005 and since I have already made explicitly
clear that my remarks were related to Q2002, I fail to
understand why you keep responding as you do. I for one, am
ending this discussion.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup