TurboTax State Update is VERY risky!

[Guest]

Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones.

I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet -
NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that might
protect your computer. Given the current attack statistics, that is an
unreasonable requirement, and it is CERTAINLY not required
technically. Lots of other companies are able to do updates through
firewalls with no problem. Why does TT need to make it so risky?

It might be reasonable to temporarily allow access for certain ports
to be open to the specific IP address(es) used by TT to do updates,
but it seems as though NOBODY at TT has any idea at all of what ports
and IP addresses are actually used. One begins to wonder about the
technical competence of that place.

Anyway, does anyone here know what ports and/or IP addresses are
required? Do you have a possible contact at Intuit who might know this
information?

And, yes, I know they will sell me a CD update that might arrive in
about two weeks, but I need to have TT results in the next few days.

Thanks in advance

Sam

[djebens]

same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones.I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet -NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that mightprotect your computer. Given the current attack statistics, that is anunreasonable requirement, and it is CERTAINLY not requiredtechnically. Lots of other companies are able to do updates throughfirewalls with no problem. Why does TT need to make it so risky?It might be reasonable to temporarily allow access for certain portsto be open to the specific IP address(es) used by TT to do updates,but it seems as though NOBODY at TT has any idea at all of what portsand IP addresses are actually used. One begins to wonder about thetechnical competence of that place.Anyway, does anyone here know what ports and/or IP addresses arerequired? Do you have a possible contact at Intuit who might know thisinformation?And, yes, I know they will sell me a CD update that might arrive inabout two weeks, but I need to have TT results in the next few days.Thanks in advanceSam

I have not had a problem dl'ing tt04 updates w/router, firewall & av
running so am not sure why you would have this problem. Did you receive
an error message stating that you could not run updates w/this components?

[Guest]

djebens <djebens@earthlink.net> wrote:
same@edgewood.invalid wrote:Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones.I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet -NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that mightprotect your computer. Given the current attack statistics, that is anunreasonable requirement, and it is CERTAINLY not requiredtechnically. Lots of other companies are able to do updates throughfirewalls with no problem. Why does TT need to make it so risky?It might be reasonable to temporarily allow access for certain portsto be open to the specific IP address(es) used by TT to do updates,but it seems as though NOBODY at TT has any idea at all of what portsand IP addresses are actually used. One begins to wonder about thetechnical competence of that place.Anyway, does anyone here know what ports and/or IP addresses arerequired? Do you have a possible contact at Intuit who might know thisinformation?And, yes, I know they will sell me a CD update that might arrive inabout two weeks, but I need to have TT results in the next few days.Thanks in advanceSamI have not had a problem dl'ing tt04 updates w/router, firewall & avrunning so am not sure why you would have this problem.

I'm not either. It hangs at 18%, forever, when trying to update.
Apparently this is a known problem because there is a note about it
that tech support will refer you to. Their solution is to disconnect
the computer and connect it DIRECTLY to the net, or disable EVERYTHING
that might protect the computer.

It is obvious that they don't need every port, and every IP address
unprotected. When I asked repeatedly about what might be the REAL
cause of the problem, and asked to chat with a supervisor, they simply
hung up on me. Support leaves a bit to be desired, too, I'm afraid.
Did you receivean error message stating that you could not run updates w/this components?

No error message, just the 'forever' hang at 18%. They don't even have
a timeout that would allow the program to recover. I have to 'end
task' to shut it down. Not the best programming, I'm afraid.

Thanks much for the reply.

Sam

[Victor Roberts]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:00:29 -0800, same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
Their solution is to disconnectthe computer and connect it DIRECTLY to the net, or disable EVERYTHINGthat might protect the computer.

This falls into the same category as tech support people who tell you
to reload the entire Windows operating system when their program will
not work :-) It sounds like Intuit has some sort of bug in the program
that effects _some_ people connecting through routers and similar
devices. Instead of figuring out whet they have done wrong, their
"fix" is to tell users to disable all their protection features.


--
Vic Roberts
Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

[Guest]

Victor Roberts <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:00:29 -0800, same@edgewood.invalid wrote:Their solution is to disconnectthe computer and connect it DIRECTLY to the net, or disable EVERYTHINGthat might protect the computer.This falls into the same category as tech support people who tell youto reload the entire Windows operating system when their program willnot work :-)

Even M$ does that. :-))
It sounds like Intuit has some sort of bug in the programthat effects _some_ people connecting through routers and similardevices. Instead of figuring out whet they have done wrong, their"fix" is to tell users to disable all their protection features.

Unfortunately true. Ther is NO WAY I'd leave myself that open just to
do an upgrade. Sheeesh!

Since I need results ASAP, I guess this will be the year I switch to
TaxCut. The irritation level just crossed over the edge.

Thanks,

Sam

[Mike L]

On Fri 25 Feb 2005 10:41:08a, wrote in
news:3bku119t5q2qoomi87c75882td4ghrk14a@4ax.com:
Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones. I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet - NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that might protect your computer. Given the current attack statistics, that is an unreasonable requirement, and it is CERTAINLY not required technically. Lots of other companies are able to do updates through firewalls with no problem. Why does TT need to make it so risky? It might be reasonable to temporarily allow access for certain ports to be open to the specific IP address(es) used by TT to do updates, but it seems as though NOBODY at TT has any idea at all of what ports and IP addresses are actually used. One begins to wonder about the technical competence of that place. Anyway, does anyone here know what ports and/or IP addresses are required? Do you have a possible contact at Intuit who might know this information? And, yes, I know they will sell me a CD update that might arrive in about two weeks, but I need to have TT results in the next few days. Thanks in advance Sam

I found a work around for my set-up (Linksys router). I was also sort of
wondering why TT was the only software having this problem and why they
couldn't borrow some Quicken code to get it working. I did not remember
having this problem the last time I used TT 2 or 3 years ago.

I had to set MTU size to 1492 on my Linksys to get the downloads to work.

--

Mike

[Andrew]

> On Fri 25 Feb 2005 10:41:08a, wrote in news:3bku119t5q2qoomi87c75882td4ghrk14a@4ax.com: Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones. I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet - NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that might protect your computer.

This must be a problem in YOUR configuration - or else *I* must be very
lucky (!). I've got all 3 (well, my router is a 801.11b wi-fi access point
for 3 wireless systems in house I also have, not sure if that matches your
definition) on my config and I've never had a problem updating T/T State or
Fed. Before fingering Intuit, you might check your own system. --
--
Regards -

- Andrew

[Rob]

same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
Victor Roberts <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote:On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:00:29 -0800, same@edgewood.invalid wrote:Their solution is to disconnectthe computer and connect it DIRECTLY to the net, or disable EVERYTHINGthat might protect the computer.This falls into the same category as tech support people who tell youto reload the entire Windows operating system when their program willnot work :-)Even M$ does that. :-))It sounds like Intuit has some sort of bug in the programthat effects _some_ people connecting through routers and similardevices. Instead of figuring out whet they have done wrong, their"fix" is to tell users to disable all their protection features.Unfortunately true. Ther is NO WAY I'd leave myself that open just todo an upgrade. Sheeesh!Since I need results ASAP, I guess this will be the year I switch toTaxCut. The irritation level just crossed over the edge.Thanks,Sam
Sam,
I have had the exact same symptom you've described and while I'm not
sure what fixed it, I found it started to work after I flushed the Java
cache and updated my Java version from the Sun web-site. HTH
Rob

[Dick Ballard]

No problem here. I'm running DSL to Linksys router with firewall, Norton
Internet Security. I have had to tweak settings in NIS for some software but not
for TT.

Dick Ballard
ballardr@att.net


On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:41:08 -0800, same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones.I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet -NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that mightprotect your computer. Given the current attack statistics, that is anunreasonable requirement, and it is CERTAINLY not requiredtechnically. Lots of other companies are able to do updates throughfirewalls with no problem. Why does TT need to make it so risky?It might be reasonable to temporarily allow access for certain portsto be open to the specific IP address(es) used by TT to do updates,but it seems as though NOBODY at TT has any idea at all of what portsand IP addresses are actually used. One begins to wonder about thetechnical competence of that place.Anyway, does anyone here know what ports and/or IP addresses arerequired? Do you have a possible contact at Intuit who might know thisinformation?And, yes, I know they will sell me a CD update that might arrive inabout two weeks, but I need to have TT results in the next few days.Thanks in advanceSam

[Hank Arnold]

I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by their
hardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected access
to the internet. Not true..... Period.......

I have:
- a hardware router
- a software firewall
- Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON)
- 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attack vectors
like Spyware

and I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever.

Configure your system properly and it will work......

--
Regards,
Hank Arnold

<same@edgewood.invalid> wrote in message
news:3bku119t5q2qoomi87c75882td4ghrk14a@4ax.com... Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones. I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet - NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that might protect your computer. Given the current attack statistics, that is an unreasonable requirement, and it is CERTAINLY not required technically. Lots of other companies are able to do updates through firewalls with no problem. Why does TT need to make it so risky? It might be reasonable to temporarily allow access for certain ports to be open to the specific IP address(es) used by TT to do updates, but it seems as though NOBODY at TT has any idea at all of what ports and IP addresses are actually used. One begins to wonder about the technical competence of that place. Anyway, does anyone here know what ports and/or IP addresses are required? Do you have a possible contact at Intuit who might know this information? And, yes, I know they will sell me a CD update that might arrive in about two weeks, but I need to have TT results in the next few days. Thanks in advance Sam

[Victor Roberts]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:13:07 -0500, "Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com>
wrote:
I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by theirhardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected accessto the internet. Not true..... Period.......I have:- a hardware router- a software firewall- Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON)- 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attack vectorslike Spywareand I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever.Configure your system properly and it will work......

I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your
indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and
recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a
solution.

http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0050001521

http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0160000091

There are obviously problems with some systems and TT update. We have
also read posts here that people who do not have problems updating any
other software do have problems with TT. So - basic logic indicates a
problem with TT - though it may not affect all systems and
configurations. If you believe this is only a configuration problem
that is unrelated to TT perhaps you can describe those computer
configuration settings that need to be set "properly" as you say in
order for update to work?


--
Vic Roberts
Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

[Mike B]

Victor Roberts <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:13:07 -0500, "Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com> wrote: I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by their hardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected access to the internet. Not true..... Period....... I have: - a hardware router - a software firewall - Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON) - 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attack vectors like Spyware and I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever. Configure your system properly and it will work...... I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution.

The reason for that recommendation is simply that Intuit (rightly) does not
want to be burdened by having to troubleshoot the configuration of each and
every user with access problems. They know what can be misconfigured, they
simply don't want to know *how* it has been misconfigured.

--
Mike B

[Mike L]

On Sat 26 Feb 2005 05:13:07a, Hank Arnold wrote in
news:9WYTd.9518$Xr7.8600@fe11.lga:
I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by their hardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected access to the internet. Not true..... Period.......

In this case it's VERY understandable that this statement is being made
as TT's own support website gives this direct connection as THE
workaround to the error code and problem being experienced by many with
routers.
I have: - a hardware router - a software firewall - Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON) - 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attack vectors like Spyware and I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever. Configure your system properly and it will work......

Problem is TT's website gave no good direction for what configuration
issues were causing the problem, only the direction to CONNECT DIRECTLY
as there were just too many routers out there for them to troubleshoot.

This has not been an issue with Quicken's software or any of the many
other software that I currently (and in the past have) connected with.


--
Mike

[Mike L]

On Sat 26 Feb 2005 05:13:07a, Hank Arnold wrote in
news:9WYTd.9518$Xr7.8600@fe11.lga:
I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by their hardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected access to the internet. Not true..... Period.......

I installed Q2004D in the fall of 2003 and remember hearing and not
tiring of many many problems reported here with that release that I NEVER
encountered. I felt pretty lucky until I had a big problem quite some
time later. I posted a workaround here (and elsewhere) to one Q2004
problem that Quicken support was diagnosing as corrupted data to everyone
reporting it (even after I reported the problem and workaround to them -
had to do with scheduling qrtly tax payments). Many here did not have
that problem (cause they didn't have these payments scheduled) and I am
sure they were tired of hearing about that one.

For those that had this problem, Quicken was a "dead-in-the-water"
product until a solution or workaround could be found. (In this case and
others, their standard and faulty problem solving method leading them to
have their customers "prove" that their data in their current file was
corrupted was very pervasive and they stated adamantly that yes your
yearly, monthly, weekly, and daily backups even though many were verified
must be corrupt too, all 400 of them.)
I have: - a hardware router - a software firewall - Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON) - 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attack vectors like Spyware and I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever. Configure your system properly and it will work......

As another poster pointed out, you were lucky (and possibly a little
impatient).



--
Mike

[GeorgeB]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:41:08 -0800, same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones.

I don't know what you mean by "manually" , but I do online 1 click
updates with no problems and have APPARENTLY current updates.
I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet -NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that mightprotect your computer.

Odd, I am connected through 2 "nat routers", have windoze XP-Home
firewall active, and McAfee AV running ... and have no toruble
updating.

George

[Victor Roberts]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:30:11 -0600, "Mike B"
<mrcics2000-news-nomail@nomail.yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]
I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution.The reason for that recommendation is simply that Intuit (rightly) does notwant to be burdened by having to troubleshoot the configuration of each andevery user with access problems. They know what can be misconfigured, theysimply don't want to know *how* it has been misconfigured.

Wow! I didn't know you had such good inside information from Intuit.
BTW - who is "They" in your last sentence? Intuit or the users?


--
Vic Roberts
Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

[Mike B]

Victor Roberts <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:30:11 -0600, "Mike B" <mrcics2000-news-nomail@nomail.yahoo.com> wrote: [snip] I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution. The reason for that recommendation is simply that Intuit (rightly) does not want to be burdened by having to troubleshoot the configuration of each and every user with access problems. They know what can be misconfigured, they simply don't want to know *how* it has been misconfigured. Wow! I didn't know you had such good inside information from Intuit. BTW - who is "They" in your last sentence? Intuit or the users?

OK, sorry. I made a categorical statement when I should have made an
inferential statement. I made that statement based on my knowledge of how
helpdesks operate.

"They" refers to Intuit.

--
Mike B

[Hank Arnold]

I stand by what I said.... The problem here is with tech support, NOT* the
software..... The OP was dis'ing TT for something that wasn't true. There
was no mention of his having contacted Intuit tech support. The software
works just fine... It's the environment it's running in that is the
problem.....

I'm just asking that we bash the right people, not put out blanket
statements without all the facts....

--
Regards,
Hank Arnold

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:n611211ju4iaafej1r42vv67e11el1hsaj@4ax.com... On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:13:07 -0500, "Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com> wrote:I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused bytheirhardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotectedaccessto the internet. Not true..... Period.......I have:- a hardware router- a software firewall- Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON)- 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attackvectorslike Spywareand I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever.Configure your system properly and it will work...... I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution. http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0050001521 http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0160000091 There are obviously problems with some systems and TT update. We have also read posts here that people who do not have problems updating any other software do have problems with TT. So - basic logic indicates a problem with TT - though it may not affect all systems and configurations. If you believe this is only a configuration problem that is unrelated to TT perhaps you can describe those computer configuration settings that need to be set "properly" as you say in order for update to work? -- Vic Roberts Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

[Victor Roberts]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 07:05:52 -0500, "Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com>
wrote:
I stand by what I said.... The problem here is with tech support, NOT* thesoftware..... The OP was dis'ing TT for something that wasn't true. Therewas no mention of his having contacted Intuit tech support. The softwareworks just fine... It's the environment it's running in that is theproblem.....I'm just asking that we bash the right people, not put out blanketstatements without all the facts....

At least you admit that Intuit tech support is not perfect, even if
you continue to insist that TT is :-)

We have seen here that TT is much more sensitive to the configuration
of the OS than most other software. I believe this is an indication
of poorly designed software. You do not. I guess we will have to agree
to disagree.


--
Vic Roberts
Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

[Hank Arnold]

--
Regards,
Hank Arnold

"Victor Roberts" <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote in message
news:hdn321l8u40m7l5dsin7grtncit8g8mka3@4ax.com...
At least you admit that Intuit tech support is not perfect, even if you continue to insist that TT is :-)

Where have I ever said Tech support or the software is perfect????
We have seen here that TT is much more sensitive to the configuration of the OS than most other software. I believe this is an indication of poorly designed software. You do not. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

What I believe is that this is an indicaiton of a poorly designed
environment... and you're right.... I agree that we disagree.....
-- Vic Roberts Replace xxx with vdr in e-mail address.

[Guest]

Rob <robc@insightbb.spambone.com> wrote:
Sam,I have had the exact same symptom you've described and while I'm notsure what fixed it, I found it started to work after I flushed the Javacache and updated my Java version from the Sun web-site. HTHRob

Fiddled with Java & JS, but it still doesn't work. Thanks VERY much
for the suggestion, though!

Sam

[Guest]

"Andrew" <andrew@jkl.com> wrote:
On Fri 25 Feb 2005 10:41:08a, wrote in news:3bku119t5q2qoomi87c75882td4ghrk14a@4ax.com: Fed updates can be done manually, but NOT state ones. I just learned that TT requires a direct connection to the Internet - NO router, NO firewall, NO virus protection - nothing that might protect your computer.This must be a problem in YOUR configuration - or else *I* must be verylucky (!). I've got all 3 (well, my router is a 801.11b wi-fi access pointfor 3 wireless systems in house I also have, not sure if that matches yourdefinition) on my config and I've never had a problem updating T/T State orFed. Before fingering Intuit, you might check your own system. --

My system does not have a problem with ANY other software, and I run a
LOT of apps on that system. TT is unusually fussy and sensitive, it
seems. I was just trying to understand why.

I contacted tech support to find out what TT actually needs to do
updates. They have no idea what TT needs, or does, or uses. :-)) I was
quite well prepared to adjust my system to meet those requirements. I
would expect tech support to have at least some knowledge of their
software.

Instead, they proposed a very dangerous solution to a problem they
KNOW they have.

You suggest that I check my system. Perhaps you can tell me what I
should check my system for?

Sam

[Guest]

"Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com> wrote:
I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by theirhardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected accessto the internet. Not true..... Period.......I have:- a hardware router- a software firewall- Anti-virus software (with real-time protection ON)- 4 different programs protecting (real-time) against various attack vectorslike Spywareand I just updated TT with **NO** problems, whatsoever.Configure your system properly and it will work......

Perhaps you can tell me what parts of my system are not configured
properly? It seems to work VERY well with LOTS of other programs, just
not with TT. What, EXACTLY, does TT do that is so different from these
many other apps? If you can tell me, I can then "configure my system
properly." :-)

Sam

[Guest]

Victor Roberts <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:13:07 -0500, "Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com>wrote:I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by theirhardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected accessto the internet. Not true..... Period.......Configure your system properly and it will work......I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with yourindignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem andrecommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as asolution.http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0050001521http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0160000091

I was going to point this out too. Thanks.
There are obviously problems with some systems and TT update.

That seems quite clear.
We havealso read posts here that people who do not have problems updating anyother software do have problems with TT.

That is true, too.
So - basic logic indicates aproblem with TT - though it may not affect all systems andconfigurations.

Good logic.
If you believe this is only a configuration problemthat is unrelated to TT perhaps you can describe those computerconfiguration settings that need to be set "properly" as you say inorder for update to work?

I'd be happy if he could tell me EXACTLY what TT needs for updates,
and I could then fix it.

Sam

[Guest]

"Mike B" <mrcics2000-news-nomail@nomail.yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution.The reason for that recommendation is simply that Intuit (rightly) does notwant to be burdened by having to troubleshoot the configuration of each andevery user with access problems.

I did NOT ask them to troubleshoot my system. I simply asked how TT
actually does updates - what ports, what IP addresses, what protocols,
etc. I was quite prepared to do ALL the 'troubleshooting' myself.

Trouble is, they don't have a clue as to how their software actually
works. :-)) That makes it a bit hard for ME to do the
troubleshooting. Agreed?
They know what can be misconfigured,

No they don't. I asked them that too.
theysimply don't want to know *how* it has been misconfigured.

They don't even have any idea of what to look for. :-)

If YOU talked to them, you'd find they actually know essentially
nothing about this. BUT - if you DO know someone there who DOES know,
please tell me. That would lead to the information needed to fix it.
Please tell me who that might be.

Sam

[Guest]

"Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com> wrote:
I stand by what I said.... The problem here is with tech support,

I agree, it is not at all helpful on this issue.
NOT* thesoftware.....

I disagree here. Good software would time out and exit gracefully,
instead of hanging forever. There would also be error messages,
hopefully with some useful information. :-)

Also, MANY other programs do updates in ways that seem to be MUCH less
sensitive than TT. If SO MANY other companies can do that so smoothly,
why can't TT?

There ARE problems with the software, despite their efforts to blame
it on users.
The OP was dis'ing TT for something that wasn't true. Therewas no mention of his having contacted Intuit tech support.

I had rather a lot of interchange with them - that is, until they hung
up o n me [for asking too many questions they couldn't answer?] Even
talked with a supervisor. Nobody had a useful clue.
The softwareworks just fine...

Ummm.... no......
It's the environment it's running in that is theproblem.....

Perhaps you can tell me EXACTLY what TT does to update. I'd be happy
to make my system conform to the requirements needed by TT What ports
does it use? What IP addresses does it go to? What protocols does it
use? How does it do updates?

I await your information....
I'm just asking that we bash the right people,

Who are the right people?
not put out blanketstatements without all the facts....

I await your facts regarding exactly what TT does to update. Those,
after all, are the important facts. Would you agree?

Sam

[Guest]

"Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com> wrote:
Where have I ever said Tech support or the software is perfect???? We have seen here that TT is much more sensitive to the configuration of the OS than most other software. I believe this is an indication of poorly designed software. You do not. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.What I believe is that this is an indicaiton of a poorly designedenvironment...

What, exactly, is poor about the environment? If you can't say, for
sure, how can you be so sure it is the enviroonment? :-))

Sam

[Guest]

Mike L <MikeL@ibehere.not> wrote:
On Sat 26 Feb 2005 05:13:07a, Hank Arnold wrote innews:9WYTd.9518$Xr7.8600@fe11.lga: I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by their hardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected access to the internet. Not true..... Period.......In this case it's VERY understandable that this statement is being madeas TT's own support website gives this direct connection as THEworkaround to the error code and problem being experienced by many withrouters.

It IS clear they know they have a problem.
Configure your system properly and it will work......Problem is TT's website gave no good direction for what configurationissues were causing the problem,

That's because they have no idea why they have the problem. :-))

I asked them how they do updates. They don't know that either. I
offered to pass on to them the fix that I would make to accommodate
their way of doing updates. Just trying to do their work for them. :-)
only the direction to CONNECT DIRECTLYas there were just too many routers out there for them to troubleshoot.

Sure - that's easier than them trying to understanding it. This puts
the burden, and the risk, entirely on the users. Typical of some
software companies. :-)

Sam

[Mike B]

same@edgewood.invalid <same@edgewood.invalid> wrote:

Sam,
Did you notice that the poster 3-up (Mike L) suggested an MTU size?
I had to set MTU size to 1492 on my Linksys to get the downloads to work.

--
Mike B

[Andrew DeFaria]

same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
If YOU talked to them, you'd find they actually know essentially nothing about this. BUT - if you DO know someone there who DOES know, please tell me. That would lead to the information needed to fix it. Please tell me who that might be.

It doesn't seem to be that difficult to set up firewall software, the
kind that alerts you when accesses are made and allows you to OK them,
and determine exactly what ports, protocols and IP addresses are
requested when the TT action is initiated. Then you could report them
back to us.

--
Young at heart. Slightly older in other places.

[Mike L]

On Mon 28 Feb 2005 03:23:58p, wrote in
news:e72721hr1l7rai91818ffh2i2n5k8p90bv@4ax.com: I disagree here. Good software would time out and exit gracefully, instead of hanging forever. There would also be error messages, hopefully with some useful information. :-) Also, MANY other programs do updates in ways that seem to be MUCH less sensitive than TT. If SO MANY other companies can do that so smoothly, why can't TT?

Yes, and as I mentioned previously ONE of the myriad other software
packages that does not share this problem is Quicken itself. I will repeat
in this thread that it is very interesting that the TT developers aren't
allowed to at least peek at the connection code developed by developers
working for the same parent company.

This piece of code used by Quicken is one that has been working nicely for
quite some time why not share it with the TT guys. The apparent lack of
concern or action here makes you think that TT development management is
not in the loop here.

[Mike L]

On Mon 28 Feb 2005 03:39:45p, Mike B wrote in
news:42239256_4@news1.prserv.net:
same@edgewood.invalid <same@edgewood.invalid> wrote: Sam, Did you notice that the poster 3-up (Mike L) suggested an MTU size? I had to set MTU size to 1492 on my Linksys to get the downloads to work.

Yes, I did change MTU size as a work around (fortunately I saw the
suggestion posted by another TT user in another group having this problem)
but I probably shouldn't have had to change the default setting because the
former default setting worked fine without the change with past releases of
TT and all releases of Quicken and other internet software.

--

Mike

[Guest]

Andrew DeFaria <Andrew@DeFaria.com> wrote:
same@edgewood.invalid wrote: If YOU talked to them, you'd find they actually know essentially nothing about this. BUT - if you DO know someone there who DOES know, please tell me. That would lead to the information needed to fix it. Please tell me who that might be.It doesn't seem to be that difficult to set up firewall software, thekind that alerts you when accesses are made and allows you to OK them,and determine exactly what ports, protocols and IP addresses arerequested when the TT action is initiated. Then you could report themback to us.

I have that running. It does not report TT trying to do an access.
Given the heavy reliance of TT on IE and WMP, my guess is that TT uses
some part of the spaghetti-like OS to do the access, and that part
already has access permission in the local firewall.

Or, it could be that TT initiates through IE a kind of, say, FTP that
utilizes a different port for replies, and is rejected by the primary
firewall. Or.... the list goes on..... :-)

Any thoughts for getting around these kinds of problems?

And, no, I don't have a handy packet sniffer. :-))

Thanks for the suggestion.

Sam

[Andrew DeFaria]

same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
This must be a problem in YOUR configuration - or else *I* must be very lucky (!). I've got all 3 (well, my router is a 801.11b wi-fi access point for 3 wireless systems in house I also have, not sure if that matches your definition) on my config and I've never had a problem updating T/T State or Fed. Before fingering Intuit, you might check your own system. My system does not have a problem with ANY other software, and I run a LOT of apps on that system. TT is unusually fussy and sensitive, it seems. I was just trying to understand why.

You know I hear that a lot (I don't have problems with any other
software) but it proves nothing. Yeah it's an indicator and a debugging
tool of sorts, but it's not proof. If it were proof then how do you
explain it working for Andrew but not you? It's gotta be something else
and it's localized to your system.
--
Why do we say something is out of whack? What's a whack?

[Andrew DeFaria]

same@edgewood.invalid wrote:
Victor Roberts <xxx@lighting-research.com> wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:13:07 -0500, "Hank Arnold" <rasilon@aol.com> wrote: I get a little tired of people blaming software for problems caused by their hardware/software setup. TT update does ***NOT*** require unprotected access to the internet. Not true..... Period....... Configure your system properly and it will work...... I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution. http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0050001521
This is interesting. The title clearly says "The server name or address
could not be resolved" yet the recommendation is to disable your
firewall. My god haven't they heard of DNS?!?
http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0160000091
Here too is interesting. I know of know program save perhaps Satan (a
program designed to find security holes) that *requires* unrestricted
access to everything. Like "Same" says, if Intuit would only describe
exactly what low level access is required (i.e. ports, etc). I'm sure
Intuit developers know this. The problem is that front line tech support
(getting paid very little money mind you) have no look as they clearly
don't understand DNS and are advocating taking a sledge hammer to your
firewall to resolve this one...
I was going to point this out too. Thanks. There are obviously problems with some systems and TT update. That seems quite clear. We have also read posts here that people who do not have problems updating any other software do have problems with TT. That is true, too. So - basic logic indicates a problem with TT - though it may not affect all systems and configurations. Good logic.

Bad logic! Software always performs the same given the same input -
period. In most cases "input" is used to cover configuration too. Thus
given the same input (and configuration) software will always produce
the same results. Ergo it's not TT itself. It's a configuration problem
(and this might also very well be caused by incorrect and/or different
"software" in the form of different system libraries (DLLs) that are
resident on the system). BTW: Have you tried updating Windows?
If you believe this is only a configuration problem that is unrelated to TT perhaps you can describe those computer configuration settings that need to be set "properly" as you say in order for update to work? I'd be happy if he could tell me EXACTLY what TT needs for updates, and I could then fix it.

Unfortunately software systems today are highly complex with a ton of
different "variables" from config files to DLLs to registry settings,
etc. Nobody can give you a distinct set of configuration values to
check. The problem is best solved by debugging it. Have you searched
around for log files that TT may be producing that might give a clue as
to what's going on? Have you tried the (sledge hammer) approach of
disabling your firewall?
--
Why are cigarettes sold in gas stations when you can't smoke there?

[Mike L]

On Tue 01 Mar 2005 10:37:16a, Andrew DeFaria wrote in news:0T0Vd.8745
$m31.107248@typhoon.sonic.net:
Bad logic! Software always performs the same given the same input - period.

Unless you consider system date input, that certainly has not always been
true of Quicken.
In most cases "input" is used to cover configuration too. Thus given the same input (and configuration) software will always produce the same results. Ergo it's not TT itself. It's a configuration problem (and this might also very well be caused by incorrect and/or different "software" in the form of different system libraries (DLLs) that are resident on the system). BTW: Have you tried updating Windows?



--
Mike

[Guest]

"Mike B" <mrcics2000-news-nomail@nomail.yahoo.com> wrote:
same@edgewood.invalid <same@edgewood.invalid> wrote:Sam, Did you notice that the poster 3-up (Mike L) suggested an MTU size? I had to set MTU size to 1492 on my Linksys to get the downloads to work.

Yes I did. It didn't help. I even tried values both smaller and larger
than he suggested.

Thanks to both you and Mike L for the suggestion.

Sam

[Guest]

Andrew DeFaria <Andrew@DeFaria.com> wrote:
same@edgewood.invalid wrote: This must be a problem in YOUR configuration - or else *I* must be very lucky (!). I've got all 3 (well, my router is a 801.11b wi-fi access point for 3 wireless systems in house I also have, not sure if that matches your definition) on my config and I've never had a problem updating T/T State or Fed. Before fingering Intuit, you might check your own system. My system does not have a problem with ANY other software, and I run a LOT of apps on that system. TT is unusually fussy and sensitive, it seems. I was just trying to understand why.You know I hear that a lot (I don't have problems with any othersoftware) but it proves nothing. Yeah it's an indicator and a debuggingtool of sorts, but it's not proof.

Agreed. I'm not interested in "proof". I'd just like a solution.
It's gotta be something elseand it's localized to your system.

There is something about TT software AND my system that is causing the
problem. What is it? It would seem as though the easiest way to find
out is for TT to tell me EXACTLY what TT needs for updates. I could
then adjust my system to accommodate what TT needs. Would you agree
that this is the best approach?

Sam

[Guest]

Andrew DeFaria <Andrew@DeFaria.com> wrote:
> Configure your system properly and it will work...... I'm glad this works for you. However, the problem with your indignation is that even Intuit agrees that this can be a problem and recommends that firewall and anti-spam software be disabled as a solution. http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0050001521This is interesting. The title clearly says "The server name or addresscould not be resolved" yet the recommendation is to disable yourfirewall. My god haven't they heard of DNS?!?

In my case there is NO error message at all. TT just 'hangs' forever.
No timeout [which good software would have :-)] or error recovery at
all.

Also, DNS is apparently not the only thing they don't seem to know
anything about. :-))
http://support.turbotax.com/turbotax/doc/0160000091Here too is interesting. I know of know program save perhaps Satan (aprogram designed to find security holes) that *requires* unrestrictedaccess to everything. Like "Same" says, if Intuit would only describeexactly what low level access is required (i.e. ports, etc). I'm sureIntuit developers know this.

That is exactly the kind of information I've been asking for. I WOULD
trust opening up for a restricted address/port range they need.
The problem is that front line tech support(getting paid very little money mind you) have no look as they clearlydon't understand DNS and are advocating taking a sledge hammer to yourfirewall to resolve this one...

My discussion was interesting .I proposed a few possible problem
causes that occurred to me, and which they knew nothing about. In
EVERY case the solution to any possible problem was to open up
everything. This looks like their universal solution to ANY access
problem.
I'd be happy if he could tell me EXACTLY what TT needs for updates, and I could then fix it.Unfortunately software systems today are highly complex with a ton ofdifferent "variables" from config files to DLLs to registry settings,etc. Nobody can give you a distinct set of configuration values tocheck.

Again, I have NEVER asked them to debug or configure my system. I'm
NOT expecting them to do that. All I was asking is to tell me what TT
needs, and I'LL do the rest.
The problem is best solved by debugging it. Have you searchedaround for log files that TT may be producing that might give a clue asto what's going on?

TT does not seem to produce log files. Also, since TT 'hangs' there
might not be any useful information in them anyway. Now, if the
program timed out, as good software should, and then wrote a log file,
we might be able to get something useful. :-))
Have you tried the (sledge hammer) approach ofdisabling your firewall?

Given the current very short mean time to attack, I'm not going to
risk the potential loss of a great deal of valuable information, plus
the time needed to do recovery, just to accommodate a lazy company
that can't even tell me what their software needs or does. Bad idea!

Sam