Oracle Developer

[mxh]

sorry for previous early posts, I've tuned my local pc time one day faster
so that my post will not be causing incovenience to others.

"Sybrand Bakker" <gooiditweg@nospam.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:e8gkj01u30r2oivirqrtjll8909467bisu@4ax.com... On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 00:15:54 +0800, "mo" <m@m.com> wrote:thanks, I'm from another country, thus the posting timeis faster. other country or no other country, please stop top posting *NOW* -- Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA

[mxh]

Hi all,

I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month,
would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form builder)?
Through self-learning or training course...etc?

If you have good notes on hand, would you please send me a copy?

I've only "Oracle Developer Advanced Forms & Reports" reference
book on hand, don't know whether it is good enough.

my email address is:
a2b380@hotmail.com

thanks in advance.

[Daniel Morgan]

mo wrote: Hi all, I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month, would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form builder)? Through self-learning or training course...etc? If you have good notes on hand, would you please send me a copy? I've only "Oracle Developer Advanced Forms & Reports" reference book on hand, don't know whether it is good enough. my email address is: a2b380@hotmail.com thanks in advance.

What you are asking to be able to do is impossible. Get realistic
expectations or get another job. In one month you will, at best,
be dangerous.

--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[mxh]

Then, how long is reasonable?

I find it not easy to practise at home without a real DB system.

The consequence is to be fired if not familar with it
but get a related job.

"Daniel Morgan" <damorgan@x.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:1094308101.173851@yasure... mo wrote: Hi all, I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month, would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form
builder)? Through self-learning or training course...etc? If you have good notes on hand, would you please send me a copy? I've only "Oracle Developer Advanced Forms & Reports" reference book on hand, don't know whether it is good enough. my email address is: a2b380@hotmail.com thanks in advance. What you are asking to be able to do is impossible. Get realistic expectations or get another job. In one month you will, at best, be dangerous. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[Ana C. Dent]

"mo" <m@m.com> wrote in news:chcl12$etq1321@imsp212.netvigator.com:
Then, how long is reasonable? I find it not easy to practise at home without a real DB system. The consequence is to be fired if not familar with it but get a related job.

Stop TOP posting!

It will take you more than a month to simply RTFM available from

http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/ids/index.html

plus reading about the DB itself at

http://www.oracle.com/pls/db92/db92.docindex?remark=homepage

[Hans Forbrich]

mo wrote:
Hi all, I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month, would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form builder)? Through self-learning or training course...etc?

Please define 'Oracle Developer', including specific product name and
version.

IF you refer to Oracle Developer Suite 9i or 10g and components thereof -
are you aware that Oracle has posted a lot of examples, general
information, detailed documents, Documentation, and tutorials at
http://otn.oracle.com to help people?

[mxh]

thanks, I'm from another country, thus the posting time
is faster.

"Hans Forbrich" <forbrich@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:Fyl_c.102350$X12.20345@edtnps84... mo wrote: Hi all, I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month, would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form builder)? Through self-learning or training course...etc? Please define 'Oracle Developer', including specific product name and version. IF you refer to Oracle Developer Suite 9i or 10g and components thereof - are you aware that Oracle has posted a lot of examples, general information, detailed documents, Documentation, and tutorials at http://otn.oracle.com to help people?

[Hans Forbrich]

mo wrote:
thanks, I'm from another country, thus the posting time is faster.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this statement. I'm guessing: you
think it's faster for you to ask questions than to do you own lookups at
http://otn.oracle.com

In general the people here refer that you read the other information first
and experiment, and then ask for more detail. We are much more friendly
when you give details about the environment and what you have tried to do.

Again: What version of Oracle Developer do you mean?

(Also - your habit of replying at the top of is contrary to the normal reply
method used and generally desired in this forum. If you wish to get help
from this community, it would be appreciated if you use bottom posting
techniques and remove unnecessary material. Thanks)
/Hans

[mxh]

I means the POST TIME of my message in newsgroup is faster
is because I'm living in another country which is different from
yours, eg Asia. Thus, it is always on top.

I just want to know a best way of learning Oracle Developer
- form builder, and I don't think which version, no matter 6i/8i/9i
will have a great difference for this issue.

Of course I've looked up information from Internet for solving
this, that's why I've bought a reference book from Oracle.

But I think it's better for me to ask expert in newsgroup.

thanks.


"Hans Forbrich" <forbrich@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:Nxm_c.103683$X12.8855@edtnps84... mo wrote: thanks, I'm from another country, thus the posting time is faster. I don't quite understand what you mean by this statement. I'm guessing:
you think it's faster for you to ask questions than to do you own lookups at http://otn.oracle.com In general the people here refer that you read the other information first and experiment, and then ask for more detail. We are much more friendly when you give details about the environment and what you have tried to do. Again: What version of Oracle Developer do you mean? (Also - your habit of replying at the top of is contrary to the normal
reply method used and generally desired in this forum. If you wish to get help from this community, it would be appreciated if you use bottom posting techniques and remove unnecessary material. Thanks) /Hans

[Hans Forbrich]

mo wrote:
I means the POST TIME of my message in newsgroup is faster is because I'm living in another country which is different from yours, eg Asia. Thus, it is always on top.

This does not compute in my experience ... perhaps it is a terminology
barrier.

When we say 'top or bottom posting', we refer to the way a response is
entered into the copy of the email. For example, the part "> I means the
POST TIME" is above this paragraph. Relative to the paragraph, I have
'bottom' posted, and I have eliminated unnecessary material.

When you respond, can you type anywhere in the copy of the response,
especially if you want to highlight a specific point? Can you remove any
of the original post to which you respond?
I just want to know a best way of learning Oracle Developer - form builder, and I don't think which version, no matter 6i/8i/9i will have a great difference for this issue.

The version make a BIG difference because there are many differences in
capabilities, differences in installation, differences in learning curve,
and especially differences in the style of answer you will get here.

You should learn Oracle Developer Suite 10g. But only after you have become
comfortable with the Oracle9i database or Oracle10g Database 10g. This is
because the Oracle Forms and Oracle Reports parts of the Developer Suite
assume you have a reasonable ORacle database background.

A lot of information, such as what this is capable of doing, and examples
using Oracle's tutorials, can be found at http://otn.oracle.com - and for
Developer Suite specifically at
http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/ids/index.html

Oracle provides a section there called "Oracle By Example". Use that as a
step-by-step introduction.

If you can purchase them, I highly recommend the book "Mastering Oracle SQL"
as well as Thomas Kyte's books - "Expert one-on-one Oracle" and "Effective
Oracle by Design". Both have examples and will help you.

Decide on your operating system as well. For plain database, I suggest
Linux. TELL US what operating system you use, or might use, when asking
questions here. There are some very subtle but nasty differences and we
will not be able help you if you dont give us complete information.

Finally, plan on studying a long time. It is reasonable, using an Oracle
course or other course, get an introduction to the tools in a few weeks.
You must plan on at least 6 months of serious effort simply to become
proficient. However, to master Oracle Forms requires a long time, measured
in years.

[Sybrand Bakker]

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 00:15:54 +0800, "mo" <m@m.com> wrote:
thanks, I'm from another country, thus the posting timeis faster.

other country or no other country, please stop top posting *NOW*


--
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA

[Mark C. Stock]

"mo" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:che9df$17s3@imsp212.netvigator.com...
| sorry for previous early posts, I've tuned my local pc time one day faster
| so that my post will not be causing incovenience to others.
|
| "Sybrand Bakker" <gooiditweg@nospam.demon.nl> wrote in message
| news:e8gkj01u30r2oivirqrtjll8909467bisu@4ax.com...
| > On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 00:15:54 +0800, "mo" <m@m.com> wrote:
| >
| > >thanks, I'm from another country, thus the posting time
| > >is faster.
| >
| > other country or no other country, please stop top posting *NOW*
| >
| >
| > --
| > Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA
|
|

mo, it's not you're PC time, it's where you place your cursor before you
start typing -- unless you've got some really strange newsgroup interface
that segregates your response from the post to which you're replying. do you
see the original message when you edit your reply? in that case, try
pressing 'Ctrl-End' before you start typing

[Mark C. Stock]

"mo" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:chchc7$etj43@imsp212.netvigator.com...
| Hi all,
|
| I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month,
| would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form
builder)?
| Through self-learning or training course...etc?
|
| If you have good notes on hand, would you please send me a copy?
|
| I've only "Oracle Developer Advanced Forms & Reports" reference
| book on hand, don't know whether it is good enough.
|
| my email address is:
| a2b380@hotmail.com
|
| thanks in advance.
|
|
mo,

forms is very tricky and not real straight-forward

to be proficient in forms you will need proficiency in SQL and PL/SQL, as
well as a good understanding of relational database theory/design, and GUI
(Graphic User Interface) design skills.

if you are (as indicated in other posts) being told to learn it in 30 days
are be fired/re-assigned, then you either need your manager to provide more
realistic goals, or start considering where your next job or assignment
should be.

some good advice appears elsewhere in this thread regarding manuals (from
OTN) and books. the 6-month time frame mentioned elsewhere may be doable,
but it depends on your current skill-set. what is your experience with SQL
and relational databases? what is your programming language experience? what
is your application design experience? and, very important, what type of
tasks do you need to become proficient at learning?

++ mcs

[Hans Forbrich]

mo wrote:
sorry for previous early posts, I've tuned my local pc time one day faster so that my post will not be causing incovenience to others.

It didn't make a difference. I suspect you do not understand what we mean.

In your next reply, try typing a word between this line ...
.... and this line. Thanks

[Daniel Morgan]

mo wrote:
Then, how long is reasonable? I find it not easy to practise at home without a real DB system. The consequence is to be fired if not familar with it but get a related job.

Better.

The first question is what skill set are you bringing to the party?
Do you already know SQL and PL/SQL or are you a complete novice?

If you don't know SQL and PL/SQL a realistic time frame is six
months without an instructor and probably 2-3 months with one.

Do you understand object oriented development concepts? Oracle
Forms is intended to be used in a manner in which inheritance and
polymorphism and the foremost concept. Unless one wants to make
a mess of things one starts about by defining visual attribute
groups and pproperty classes. Then one creates a form consisting,
perhaps, of multiple windows with multiple canvases, then creates
objects inheriting and morphing from the attributes and classes.

A decent form will also, undoubtedly, involve extensive use of
record groups, LOVs, and triggers and just learning the various
triggers and when they are appropriate and their firing order is
a topic unto itself.

So in answer to your question ... months of constant study. Can
someone build a form in less time? Absolutely. Will it likely be
inefficient and "dangerous" undoubtedly.

--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[Daniel Morgan]

mo wrote:
I means the POST TIME of my message in newsgroup is faster is because I'm living in another country which is different from yours, eg Asia. Thus, it is always on top.

You are not understanding the criticism. You are posting at the top of a
thread when, like me, you are being asked to post at the bottom. This is
not a matter of speed, performance, locatoin, or time. It is a matter of
proper etiquette in a usenet group.

--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[mxh]

I have the basic oracle architecture concepts in undergraduate
course. I know SQL & PL/SQL, they are quite easy to pick up.

For Oracle forms, I don't know how to describe how difficult
for me to learn it. There are numerous build-in features (eg
WHEN-NEW-FORM INSTANCE), and it's not easy to understand
them all.

I understand that it's better for me to take an Oracle course,
but I am lacking in $$. Thus, I want to know the proper way
of self-learning Oracle forms.

Is the book I mentioned before "Oracle Advanced Forms and
Reports" still up-to-date since it is published in 1996.

You suggest me to read the materials in Oracle web site?

thanks

"Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX@Xenquery .com> wrote in message
news:-LOdnfFhRYQei6bcRVn-vw@comcast.com... "mo" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:chchc7$etj43@imsp212.netvigator.com... | Hi all, | | I am a newbie to Oracle Developer, I want to learn it within a month, | would you please share how you handle this tool (esp. Oracle form builder)? | Through self-learning or training course...etc? | | If you have good notes on hand, would you please send me a copy? | | I've only "Oracle Developer Advanced Forms & Reports" reference | book on hand, don't know whether it is good enough. | | my email address is: | a2b380@hotmail.com | | thanks in advance. | | mo, forms is very tricky and not real straight-forward to be proficient in forms you will need proficiency in SQL and PL/SQL, as well as a good understanding of relational database theory/design, and GUI (Graphic User Interface) design skills. if you are (as indicated in other posts) being told to learn it in 30 days are be fired/re-assigned, then you either need your manager to provide
more realistic goals, or start considering where your next job or assignment should be. some good advice appears elsewhere in this thread regarding manuals (from OTN) and books. the 6-month time frame mentioned elsewhere may be doable, but it depends on your current skill-set. what is your experience with SQL and relational databases? what is your programming language experience?
what is your application design experience? and, very important, what type of tasks do you need to become proficient at learning? ++ mcs

[Daniel Morgan]

mo wrote:
I have the basic oracle architecture concepts in undergraduate course. I know SQL & PL/SQL, they are quite easy to pick up. For Oracle forms, I don't know how to describe how difficult for me to learn it. There are numerous build-in features (eg WHEN-NEW-FORM INSTANCE), and it's not easy to understand them all. I understand that it's better for me to take an Oracle course, but I am lacking in $$. Thus, I want to know the proper way of self-learning Oracle forms. Is the book I mentioned before "Oracle Advanced Forms and Reports" still up-to-date since it is published in 1996. You suggest me to read the materials in Oracle web site? thanks

I think the publicly available materials, no matter how
flawed, are the best you are going to get if you can not
afford to take a class. Though I do find it rather incredible
that you can't come up with the money for a class that is
directly related to your employment and the skill set that
makes or keeps you employable.

--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[mxh]

Thanks for your information.

An Oracle Developer training course in my country
costs around 2 months salary of an IT guy. To be
honest, I cannot afford it.

Are you in United States? Is it common for IT people
to learn technical skills through training?



"Daniel Morgan" <damorgan@x.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:1094411695.438750@yasure... mo wrote: I have the basic oracle architecture concepts in undergraduate course. I know SQL & PL/SQL, they are quite easy to pick up. For Oracle forms, I don't know how to describe how difficult for me to learn it. There are numerous build-in features (eg WHEN-NEW-FORM INSTANCE), and it's not easy to understand them all. I understand that it's better for me to take an Oracle course, but I am lacking in $$. Thus, I want to know the proper way of self-learning Oracle forms. Is the book I mentioned before "Oracle Advanced Forms and Reports" still up-to-date since it is published in 1996. You suggest me to read the materials in Oracle web site? thanks I think the publicly available materials, no matter how flawed, are the best you are going to get if you can not afford to take a class. Though I do find it rather incredible that you can't come up with the money for a class that is directly related to your employment and the skill set that makes or keeps you employable. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[Daniel Morgan]

mo wrote:
Thanks for your information. An Oracle Developer training course in my country costs around 2 months salary of an IT guy. To be honest, I cannot afford it. Are you in United States? Is it common for IT people to learn technical skills through training?

It certainly isn't as common as it should be but it is
certainly not unusual.

The Oracle Forms and Reports class at the University of
Washington is about $600 USD for comparison. Perhaps you
can find someone in your country that is an expert and
pay them to teach you what you need to learn.

You can find user groups around the world at:
http://www.psoug.org/usergrps.html
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

[Nikolai S. Georgiew]

http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html#3