HTML DB users?

[Mark C. Stock]

not much discussion about HTML DB recently

anybody out there attempting to use it for anything at all?

++ mcs

[Sean Chang]

I have done a small production site by using HTMLDB, one word: awesome!!!
I have used Oracle OAS4, IAS1, 9iASR2... Jdeveloper, nothing
works good like HtmlDB. I would say HTMLDB is the only
Oracle Product after database itself really works right away from version1.
( I have not used Oracle Forms version 1, I know it works version 3)

Please look here for my posts:
http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jsp?forum=137&thread=239382&tstart=105&trange=15
http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jsp?forum=137&thread=261617&message=794157#794157
for more interesting discussion.

sean

"Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX@Xenquery .com> wrote in message
news:YvadnZOxVfNDKdjcRVn-hQ@comcast.com... not much discussion about HTML DB recently anybody out there attempting to use it for anything at all? ++ mcs




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[Mark C. Stock]

"Sean Chang" <sean@cnfei.com> wrote in message news:414ae1ce$1_3@corp.newsgroups.com...
| I have done a small production site by using HTMLDB, one word: awesome!!!
| I have used Oracle OAS4, IAS1, 9iASR2... Jdeveloper, nothing
| works good like HtmlDB. I would say HTMLDB is the only
| Oracle Product after database itself really works right away from version1.
| ( I have not used Oracle Forms version 1, I know it works version 3)
|
| Please look here for my posts:
| http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jsp?forum=137&thread=239382&tstart=105&trange=15
| http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jsp?forum=137&thread=261617&message=794157#794157
| for more interesting discussion.
|
| sean
|
| "Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX@Xenquery .com> wrote in message
| news:YvadnZOxVfNDKdjcRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
| > not much discussion about HTML DB recently
| >
| > anybody out there attempting to use it for anything at all?
| >
| > ++ mcs
| >
| >
|

Thanks, Sean.

In my initial review of generated forms, I found a lot of deficiencies... I'm sure some of them are simply a matter of working with the product longer, and some is probably a matter of product maturity.

Would you care to comment on these. I don't think I'm being too picky, if this is supposed to be an declarative 'as easy as Access' app builder, I would expect it would handle this kind of stuff. Also, I'd be interested if you wouldn't mind itemizing what you feel are its strengths.
a.. No default LOVs for FKs
b.. No checks for data changes before allowing navigation
c.. Database errors displayed on separate screen -- link to return to edit page is not very apparent
d.. Pop-up calendar does not highlight current date or currently selected date
e.. No option to display PK values in generated forms?
f.. No client-side validation -- no readily apparent JavaScript support?
g.. Inconsistent functionality of 'CREATE' buttons -- sometimes means NEW, sometimes means SAVE
h.. No option to refresh edit page after checksum error (checksum error is really, really ugly)
i.. Generated forms for each of multiple tables all created with the same name (Update,Insert,Report,Success)
j.. User-defined validations are at page level, not shared among pages
k.. Data picker format is inflexible (does not analyze user input and do intelligent conversion)
l.. Uses full page refreshes instead of frames or DHTML
m.. No apparent settings for simple client-side validations like INPUT item maximum length (should at least default to VARCHAR2 length)
n.. Buttons scroll of page (no frames or DHTML to keep buttons visible)
o.. Mouse-centric (most users don't have 3 hands)
p.. No search capabilities in the online help
q.. 'Apply Changes' behavior is inconsistent -- sometimes closes page, sometimes not
Thanks!

++ mcs

[Sean Chang]

I have more than one-month experience with HTMLDB, version 1.5000.33
on Sun Solaris 9 10G DB. I got occasional errors with HD but generally
it's stable enough for production. Performace may be a little slow compared
to other scripts like PHP.

more Replies inline.
"Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX@Xenquery .com> wrote in message
news:ibqdnfIQSMk-aNfcRVn-jw@comcast.com...
|
| "Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX@Xenquery .com> wrote in message
| news:YvadnZOxVfNDKdjcRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
| > not much discussion about HTML DB recently
| >
| > anybody out there attempting to use it for anything at all?
| >
| > ++ mcs
| >
| >
|

Thanks, Sean.

In my initial review of generated forms, I found a lot of deficiencies...
I'm sure some of them are simply a matter of working with the product
longer, and some is probably a matter of product maturity.

Would you care to comment on these. I don't think I'm being too picky, if
this is supposed to be an declarative 'as easy as Access' app builder, I
would expect it would handle this kind of stuff. Also, I'd be interested if
you wouldn't mind itemizing what you feel are its strengths.
a.. No default LOVs for FKs NO, you have to add by your self, it's easy to do.
b.. No checks for data changes before allowing navigation NO, I suppose you have to add Javascript , have no experience so far
c.. Database errors displayed on separate screen -- link to return to edit
page is not very apparentOn the same screen, with Debug option, it's super. Edit page is very
apparent( a menu below)
d.. Pop-up calendar does not highlight current date or currently selected
date it highlights only current month
e.. No option to display PK values in generated forms?Sure yes, Just like Oracle Forms, you can choose to display or hide it.
f.. No client-side validation -- no readily apparent JavaScript support? YES, Lots of Javascript support, search HD forum for "Javascript",
I have not done a lot but sure works
g.. Inconsistent functionality of 'CREATE' buttons -- sometimes means NEW,
sometimes means SAVE mostly OK, only see a couple out of 100s
h.. No option to refresh edit page after checksum error (checksum error is
really, really ugly)don't know this one.
i.. Generated forms for each of multiple tables all created with the same
name (Update,Insert,Report,Success) no such problem for me.
j.. User-defined validations are at page level, not shared among pagesYes.
k.. Data picker format is inflexible (does not analyze user input and do
intelligent conversion)YES, but you can use Javscript or database trigger to get around this
l.. Uses full page refreshes instead of frames or DHTML Yes, the worst part is always pull data anew from DB each time you
navigate there.
m.. No apparent settings for simple client-side validations like INPUT
item maximum length (should at least default to VARCHAR2 length)NO, you have to do by your self.
n.. Buttons scroll of page (no frames or DHTML to keep buttons visible)No
o.. Mouse-centric (most users don't have 3 hands)Yes
p.. No search capabilities in the online helpNO
q.. 'Apply Changes' behavior is inconsistent -- sometimes closes page,
sometimes not Happens if you have too many fields for customization, but generally
works.
Thanks!
for simple web applications which don't reqire huge customization, HD is
the best.
you probably can build a small site within days and other programmers may
need weeks.

Best part: lots of DB support (like you can use stored procedure), very
effective wizards
( for forms, reports AND Graphs).
Worst part: customization is harder, like Graph you can't customize it to
use alternative color,
you can only choose either one color or RAMDON colors (frustrated me but
Seigo from
HD team said will have stacked BAR next release. see Forum).

Overall I'll give it a A( or A+), you can't use it build something like
Amazon.com,
but for 90% websites which do not require huge customization, you can save
90% time.
The development tools (wizards stuff) generally works, of course , sometimes
failure
still happens( I have a table with 60 something fields, the customization of
column
always returns a "Value error"----the varchar is not defined long enough).

You may also post you question on HD forum, the HD team are generally very
responsive.

sean



++ mcs

[Sean Chang]

Sorry about this format, our news server is down so I
have to use google. I just copy over from OE and don't know
why Google re-arrange the sentence.
(interestingly if I use reply to this post the display is OK)
a.. No default LOVs for FKs
+NO, you have to add by your self, it's easy to do. b.. No checks for data changes before allowing navigation
+NO, I suppose you have to add Javascript , have no experience
so far c.. Database errors displayed on separate screen -- link to return to edit page is not very apparent
+On the same screen, with Debug option, it's super. Edit page
is very
apparent( a menu below) d.. Pop-up calendar does not highlight current date or currently selected date
+ it highlights only current month e.. No option to display PK values in generated forms?
+ Sure yes, Just like Oracle Forms, you can choose to display or
hide it. f.. No client-side validation -- no readily apparent JavaScript support?
+ YES, Lots of Javascript support, search HD forum for
"Javascript",
I have not done a lot but sure works g.. Inconsistent functionality of 'CREATE' buttons -- sometimes means NEW, sometimes means SAVE
+ mostly OK, only see a couple out of 100s h.. No option to refresh edit page after checksum error (checksum error is really, really ugly)
+don't know this one. i.. Generated forms for each of multiple tables all created with the same name (Update,Insert,Report,Success)
+no such problem for me. j.. User-defined validations are at page level, not shared among pages
+Yes. k.. Data picker format is inflexible (does not analyze user input and do intelligent conversion)
+YES, but you can use Javscript or database trigger to get around
this l.. Uses full page refreshes instead of frames or DHTML
+ Yes, the worst part is always pull data anew from DB each time
you
navigate there. m.. No apparent settings for simple client-side validations like INPUT item maximum length (should at least default to VARCHAR2 length)
+NO, you have to do by your self. n.. Buttons scroll of page (no frames or DHTML to keep buttons visible)
+No o.. Mouse-centric (most users don't have 3 hands)
+Yes p.. No search capabilities in the online help
+NO q.. 'Apply Changes' behavior is inconsistent -- sometimes closes page, sometimes not
+ Happens if you have too many fields for customization, but
generally
works.

for simple web applications which don't reqire huge customization, HD
is
the best.you probably can build a small site within days and other
programmers may need weeks.

Best part: lots of DB support (like you can use stored procedure),
very
effective wizards ( for forms, reports AND Graphs).
Worst part: customization is harder, like Graph you can't customize it
to
use alternative color,
you can only choose either one color or RAMDON colors (frustrated me
but
Seigo from HD team said will have stacked BAR next release. see
Forum).
Overall I'll give it a A( or A+), you can't use it build something
like
Amazon.com,
but for 90% websites which do not require huge customization, you can
save
90% time.
The development tools (wizards stuff) generally works, of course ,
sometimes failure still happens( I have a table with 60 something
fields, the customization of column always returns a "Value
error"----the varchar is not defined long enough).

You may also post you question on HD forum, the HD team are generally
very
responsive.