not power source or power switch?

[DJ]

Hi,
I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting down for
no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard
drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the power still
just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It happens
after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas?
Donna J.

[Hanjing]

Maybe you can check the CPU. Sometimes the system will shut off automatisch
with too hot CPU. Harddisk is sure not the problem, i think.
"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote
news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Hi, I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting down
for no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the power
still just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It happens after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? Donna J.

[Howd E. Doodat]

On Wed, 26 May 2004 21:00:00 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi, I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting down forno aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) harddrive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the power stilljust shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It happensafter the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas?Donna J.

First things first:

I would advise you to get your NEW harddrive OUT of this faulty
machine ASAP, and replace it with your old bad-sectored one, until the
actual problem is definitively determined and fixed.

I base my suggestion on just one thing: If your old hard drive
developed bad sectors as a result of, say a power spike banging the
heads (or other esoteric exotica like overdriving the write head
current or "glitch writing" to protected area(s) of your HD) and your
new system is exhibiting the same power-fault behavior as it did
before, then it is reasonable to assume that your new harddrive may be
vulnerable to the same affliction.

Other things last:

You mentioned you posted this problem a few months ago.
Did you:
A) Get the new HD/PS at that time and it has been running fine until
now?
B} Just now get the new HD/PS, and found out immediately that it
didn't fix the problem?

Also, how long have you had this system? Has it been trouble-free
since then until a few monyhs ago? Or have there been other problems?

Is your computer plugged into anything besides the wall?
IOW, are you plugged into a UPS, a power-strip, a so-called "power
station" or "power distribution" thingy?

Do you know the "wattage" of your old power supply and of the new one?

The US has some of the (or maybe even THE) best regulated power
generation in the world. Still, maybe somewhere off in Podunk W.
Virginia, the power company thinks squirrel cages work just as well as
turbines (I once accused Conectiv here in New Jersey of that right to
their phone-faces<g>). Do you experience power problems often either
in your community or your house?

Have you installed any new peripherals in your system in the last few
months?

What kind of processor (CPU) is in your system?

Power up your system with the cover off. Check to make sure ALL the
fans are running, including the one in your power supply.


That's about it for my questions so far.... ;-)


Mike

[DJ]

Hi Mike,
I would advise you to get your NEW harddrive OUT of this faulty
machine ASAP, and replace it with your old bad-sectored one, until the
actual problem is definitively determined and fixed.

I agree totally with this idea. I am answering your post first. It will take
some time to set the old hard drive up again.


I base my suggestion on just one thing: If your old hard drive
developed bad sectors as a result of, say a power spike banging the
heads (or other esoteric exotica like overdriving the write head
current or "glitch writing" to protected area(s) of your HD) and your
new system is exhibiting the same power-fault behavior as it did
before, then it is reasonable to assume that your new harddrive may be
vulnerable to the same affliction.

I do believe the bad sectors were caused from the power outages.

You mentioned you posted this problem a few months ago.
Did you:
A) Get the new HD/PS at that time and it has been running fine until
now?
B} Just now get the new HD/PS, and found out immediately that it
didn't fix the problem?
Also, how long have you had this system? Has it been trouble-free
since then until a few monyhs ago? Or have there been other problems?


I got my HP Pavilion in July 2002, the problem with the computer shutting
down started around December 2003 or January 2004. I bought a new hard drive
2 months ago (March), the power supply just a few weeks ago. The only other
new item in my PC is the CD writer (Sony). But I had problems before I added
anything new to the PC. As for the power outage, within minutes of turning
my PC on, it shut down on me right after I replaced the power source. I
replaced it on Tuesday (25th) evening. Then I have to unplug it and wait a
few minutes and plug it back in. It only happened twice with the new power
source, but that is two times too many.

Is your computer plugged into anything besides the wall?
IOW, are you plugged into a UPS, a power-strip, a so-called "power
station" or "power distribution" thingy?
PC plugged into a power strip.

Do you know the "wattage" of your old power supply and of the new one?
The new Antec power supply is 300 W, the old one was a HiPro and the only
thing I see on it for wattage is: Max. Output Power 157 W

The US has some of the (or maybe even THE) best regulated power
generation in the world. Still, maybe somewhere off in Podunk W.
Virginia, the power company thinks squirrel cages work just as well as
turbines (I once accused Conectiv here in New Jersey of that right to
their phone-faces<g>). Do you experience power problems often either
in your community or your house?

We live in the south and we do have frequent power outages in this area.
Have you installed any new peripherals in your system in the last few
months?

Replaced CD writer
What kind of processor (CPU) is in your system?

Celeron 1.3 GHz



Power up your system with the cover off. Check to make sure ALL the
fans are running, including the one in your power supply.


The fans are working fine and I clean them on a regular basis.



Thnaks for your help,

Donna J.

[DJ]

"Hanjing"
The PC shuts off after just a few minutes, do you think the CPU would
overheat in such a short time ?

Thanks for your advice,
Donna J.

"Hanjing" <miaohanjing@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:40b526dd_1@news.arcor-ip.de... Maybe you can check the CPU. Sometimes the system will shut off
automatisch with too hot CPU. Harddisk is sure not the problem, i think. "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Hi, I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting down for no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the power still just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It
happens after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? Donna J.

[Howd E. Doodat]

Can you describe the shutdown problem in detail?

In other words, does the computer just hang?
Does the system shutdown and turn itself off?
Does the system shut down and then reboot?

And most important of all, do you get ANY kind of warning or error
message prior to or during the shutdown?

Mike

[DJ]

Hi Mike,
I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to take any
chances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it just turns
off, no warning or error messages.
Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until I
unplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in.
Thanks for the help,
Donna J.

"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message
news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Hi, I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting down
for no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the power
still just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It happens after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? Donna J.

[Howd E. Doodat]

On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi Mike, I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to take anychances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it just turnsoff, no warning or error messages. Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until Iunplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. Thanks for the help,Donna J."DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in messagenews:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Hi, I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting downfor no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the powerstill just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It happens after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? Donna J.

Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another
worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down.
To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error
messages before shutting down.

No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm
convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling).
There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board
itself and the power supply.

=== Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ========

The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage
regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220"
package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal
with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar
circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it
literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much
current through it (which causes its temperature to rise
dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by
immediately powering down.

Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you
can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp
reset the crowbar.

Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated
current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and
can exhibit the same problem.

=== end more info that you really wanted to know section ========

The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem
should be fairly simple to locate.

The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the
problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many
peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw
at it. So this is good.

Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem.

Critical questions:

If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is
there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has
NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"?
This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no
other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it
would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-)

Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a
video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP?

Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device?

How many harddrives are in your system?

List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots.

List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard
devices) that are on your motherboard.

List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your
monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or
firewire) devices on your system.

List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't...
'-)

This should be good for starters... ;-)

[DJ]

Morning Howd,
First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a 400.

Old HD now installed 40 GB Seagate

New HD disconnected 120 GB Western Digital

Standard floppy disk drive

Lucent Win Modem card

Sony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device)

HP Deskjet 3820 printer

HP Pavilion MX70 monitor

HP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3)

PS/2 compatible mouse

Below is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of the
actual MB.

HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomita

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028

Thanks again, Donna J.





"Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in message
news:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi Mike, I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to take
anychances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it just
turnsoff, no warning or error messages. Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until Iunplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. Thanks for the help,Donna J."DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in messagenews:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Hi, I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting
downfor no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the powerstill just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It
happens after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? Donna J. Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down. To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error messages before shutting down. No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board itself and the power supply. === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220" package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much current through it (which causes its temperature to rise dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by immediately powering down. Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp reset the crowbar. Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and can exhibit the same problem. === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem should be fairly simple to locate. The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw at it. So this is good. Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. Critical questions: If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? How many harddrives are in your system? List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard devices) that are on your motherboard. List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or firewire) devices on your system. List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... '-) This should be good for starters... ;-)

[DJ]

Howd
Oops, forgot the 2 little Polk Audio speakers that came with the HP.
Thanks,
Donna J.


"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message
news:jH_tc.88478$hH.1597297@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Morning Howd, First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a 400. Old HD now installed 40 GB Seagate New HD disconnected 120 GB Western Digital Standard floppy disk drive Lucent Win Modem card Sony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device) HP Deskjet 3820 printer HP Pavilion MX70 monitor HP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3) PS/2 compatible mouse Below is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of the actual MB. HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomita
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028 Thanks again, Donna J. "Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in message news:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi Mike, I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to take anychances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it just turnsoff, no warning or error messages. Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until Iunplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. Thanks for the help,Donna J."DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in messagenews:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> Hi,> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shutting downfor> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate)
hard> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the powerstill> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? It happens> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas?> Donna J.> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down. To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error messages before shutting down. No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board itself and the power supply. === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220" package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much current through it (which causes its temperature to rise dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by immediately powering down. Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp reset the crowbar. Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and can exhibit the same problem. === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem should be fairly simple to locate. The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw at it. So this is good. Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. Critical questions: If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? How many harddrives are in your system? List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard devices) that are on your motherboard. List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or firewire) devices on your system. List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... '-) This should be good for starters... ;-)

[Ben Myers]

Assuming that the 300w power supply is decent quality, it supplies more than
enough juice for the hardware you have.

At this point, it is worth examining the capacitors on the motherboard for any
signs of bulging, loss of cylindrical shape, or even material which has oozed
out of the capacitors. For a while, the entire industry has been troubled by
poor quality capacitors manufactured somewhere on the Pacific Rim. In the
extreme cases, capacitors actually explode. Trigem is anything but a leader in
the manufacture of high quality hardware. Trigem also makes/made the
motherboards in the chintzy eMachines boxes. I would not be surprised if Trigem
bought some of the junk capacitors on the cheap... Ben Myers

On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:43:11 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Morning Howd,First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a 400.Old HD now installed 40 GB SeagateNew HD disconnected 120 GB Western DigitalStandard floppy disk driveLucent Win Modem cardSony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device)HP Deskjet 3820 printerHP Pavilion MX70 monitorHP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3)PS/2 compatible mouseBelow is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of theactual MB.HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomitahttp://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028Thanks again, Donna J."Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in messagenews:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi Mike, I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to takeanychances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it justturnsoff, no warning or error messages. Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until Iunplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. Thanks for the help,Donna J."DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in messagenews:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> Hi,> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shuttingdownfor> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate) hard> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the powerstill> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? Ithappens> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas?> Donna J.> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down. To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error messages before shutting down. No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board itself and the power supply. === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220" package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much current through it (which causes its temperature to rise dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by immediately powering down. Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp reset the crowbar. Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and can exhibit the same problem. === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem should be fairly simple to locate. The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw at it. So this is good. Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. Critical questions: If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? How many harddrives are in your system? List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard devices) that are on your motherboard. List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or firewire) devices on your system. List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... '-) This should be good for starters... ;-)

[DJ]

Hi Ben
You helped me out so much before, wasn't sure if you were still on here.
The PS is an Antec 300W.
I will look at the MB and see if I see any oozing. I wish that the picture
of the MB on the HP website identified the parts in there for me. I will get
a good light and maybe a magnifying glass and see if I can see anything.
Thanks,
Donna J.


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:40b8953b.1047223@news.charter.net... Assuming that the 300w power supply is decent quality, it supplies more
than enough juice for the hardware you have. At this point, it is worth examining the capacitors on the motherboard for
any signs of bulging, loss of cylindrical shape, or even material which has
oozed out of the capacitors. For a while, the entire industry has been troubled
by poor quality capacitors manufactured somewhere on the Pacific Rim. In the extreme cases, capacitors actually explode. Trigem is anything but a
leader in the manufacture of high quality hardware. Trigem also makes/made the motherboards in the chintzy eMachines boxes. I would not be surprised if
Trigem bought some of the junk capacitors on the cheap... Ben Myers On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:43:11 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Morning Howd,First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a 400.Old HD now installed 40 GB SeagateNew HD disconnected 120 GB Western DigitalStandard floppy disk driveLucent Win Modem cardSony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device)HP Deskjet 3820 printerHP Pavilion MX70 monitorHP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3)PS/2 compatible mouseBelow is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of theactual MB.HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomitahttp://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc=
us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028Thanks again, Donna J."Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in messagenews:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >Hi Mike, > I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to
takeany >chances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it justturns >off, no warning or error messages. > Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until
I >unplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. > Thanks for the help, >Donna J. > >"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message >news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >> Hi, >> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shuttingdown >for >> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate)
hard >> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the
power >still >> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? Ithappens >> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? >> Donna J. >> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down. To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error messages before shutting down. No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board itself and the power supply. === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220" package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much current through it (which causes its temperature to rise dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by immediately powering down. Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp reset the crowbar. Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and can exhibit the same problem. === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem should be fairly simple to locate. The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw at it. So this is good. Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. Critical questions: If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? How many harddrives are in your system? List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard devices) that are on your motherboard. List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or firewire) devices on your system. List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... '-) This should be good for starters... ;-)

[Howd E. Doodat]

S'okay, Donna. 300watts is still quite vigorous, and should easily
handle the goodies you've listed. I see no problem here.

There's still a VERY important point that needs answering, though,
before we get started. That's where I asked:
If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"?

Also, from another angle, is there anything you can think of that you
can do or have done that INVARIABLY causes the system to suddenly shut
down?

Mike

[Howd E. Doodat]

On Sat, 29 May 2004 21:25:05 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi Ben You helped me out so much before, wasn't sure if you were still on here.The PS is an Antec 300W.
... I wish that the picture of the MB on the HP website identified the parts in there for me.

Hehheh...You speak for us all, Donna.... ;-)

I personally view it as outrgaeously insulting that when something
goes wrong with one of their systems, that a user has to HACK his way
into his own damned system in the (often futile) hope of fixing it.

HP documentation doesn't even make good toilet paper.

[DJ]

Hi Mike/Howd,
Honestly, I don't know of anything that I do, it just shuts down on me. I
do know it has always been right after I turn the PC on. But now I can say
that it hasn't shut down on me at all since I wrote to this newsgroup about
it, on the 26th. My PC is jinxed.
Glad that I never bought HP toilet paper. :-)

Donna J.




"Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in message
news:r3vhb01amnjpk736ungdnmjoosv39i70tr@4ax.com... S'okay, Donna. 300watts is still quite vigorous, and should easily handle the goodies you've listed. I see no problem here. There's still a VERY important point that needs answering, though, before we get started. That's where I asked: If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? Also, from another angle, is there anything you can think of that you can do or have done that INVARIABLY causes the system to suddenly shut down? Mike

[DJ]

Hi Ben
Hi, just wanted you to know that I checked the MB and couldn't see
anything oozing. I do have a question though. Since I have had my PC open
more, it has lots of dust on the motherboard and other parts. Is it safe to
use the compressed air to clear out the dust. I hadn't noticed it until I
got the flashlight out and did a closer inspection.
Thanks,
Donna J.


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:40b8953b.1047223@news.charter.net... Assuming that the 300w power supply is decent quality, it supplies more
than enough juice for the hardware you have. At this point, it is worth examining the capacitors on the motherboard for
any signs of bulging, loss of cylindrical shape, or even material which has
oozed out of the capacitors. For a while, the entire industry has been troubled
by poor quality capacitors manufactured somewhere on the Pacific Rim. In the extreme cases, capacitors actually explode. Trigem is anything but a
leader in the manufacture of high quality hardware. Trigem also makes/made the motherboards in the chintzy eMachines boxes. I would not be surprised if
Trigem bought some of the junk capacitors on the cheap... Ben Myers On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:43:11 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Morning Howd,First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a 400.Old HD now installed 40 GB SeagateNew HD disconnected 120 GB Western DigitalStandard floppy disk driveLucent Win Modem cardSony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device)HP Deskjet 3820 printerHP Pavilion MX70 monitorHP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3)PS/2 compatible mouseBelow is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of theactual MB.HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomitahttp://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc=
us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028Thanks again, Donna J."Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in messagenews:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >Hi Mike, > I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want to
takeany >chances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it justturns >off, no warning or error messages. > Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on until
I >unplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. > Thanks for the help, >Donna J. > >"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message >news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >> Hi, >> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shuttingdown >for >> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate)
hard >> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but the
power >still >> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? Ithappens >> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? >> Donna J. >> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down. To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error messages before shutting down. No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board itself and the power supply. === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220" package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much current through it (which causes its temperature to rise dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by immediately powering down. Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp reset the crowbar. Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and can exhibit the same problem. === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem should be fairly simple to locate. The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw at it. So this is good. Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. Critical questions: If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? How many harddrives are in your system? List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard devices) that are on your motherboard. List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or firewire) devices on your system. List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... '-) This should be good for starters... ;-)

[Ben Myers]

Donna,

There are a lot of people who claim that cleaning out the inside of a computer
with a can of compressed air is harmful to the computer. That is hogwash! I do
it all the time with my own and clients' computers. Never an ill effect. If
there is a lot of dust, take the open chassis outside and blow the dust bunnies
out into the air. Never when it is raining or snowing, tho. And with the
computer unplugged from the wall current, of course.

In addition to oozing capacitors, another symptom of a bad capacitor is
distortion from its normal cylindrical shape... Ben Myers

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:31:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi Ben Hi, just wanted you to know that I checked the MB and couldn't seeanything oozing. I do have a question though. Since I have had my PC openmore, it has lots of dust on the motherboard and other parts. Is it safe touse the compressed air to clear out the dust. I hadn't noticed it until Igot the flashlight out and did a closer inspection.Thanks, Donna J.<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in messagenews:40b8953b.1047223@news.charter.net... Assuming that the 300w power supply is decent quality, it supplies morethan enough juice for the hardware you have. At this point, it is worth examining the capacitors on the motherboard forany signs of bulging, loss of cylindrical shape, or even material which hasoozed out of the capacitors. For a while, the entire industry has been troubledby poor quality capacitors manufactured somewhere on the Pacific Rim. In the extreme cases, capacitors actually explode. Trigem is anything but aleader in the manufacture of high quality hardware. Trigem also makes/made the motherboards in the chintzy eMachines boxes. I would not be surprised ifTrigem bought some of the junk capacitors on the cheap... Ben Myers On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:43:11 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Morning Howd,First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a 400.Old HD now installed 40 GB SeagateNew HD disconnected 120 GB Western DigitalStandard floppy disk driveLucent Win Modem cardSony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device)HP Deskjet 3820 printerHP Pavilion MX70 monitorHP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3)PS/2 compatible mouseBelow is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of theactual MB.HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomitahttp://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028Thanks again, Donna J."Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in messagenews:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com...> On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:>> >Hi Mike,> > I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want totakeany> >chances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it justturns> >off, no warning or error messages.> > Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on untilI> >unplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in.> > Thanks for the help,> >Donna J.> >> >"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message> >news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> >> Hi,> >> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just shuttingdown> >for> >> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate)hard> >> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but thepower> >still> >> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this? Ithappens> >> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas?> >> Donna J.> >>>> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another> worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you down.> To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error> messages before shutting down.>> No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm> convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling).> There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother board> itself and the power supply.>> === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ========>> The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage> regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a "TO-220"> package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal> with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called "crowbar> circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it> literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much> current through it (which causes its temperature to rise> dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by> immediately powering down.>> Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you> can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp> reset the crowbar.>> Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more sophistcated> current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and> can exhibit the same problem.>> === end more info that you really wanted to know section ========>> The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the problem> should be fairly simple to locate.>> The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the> problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many> peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can throw> at it. So this is good.>> Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem.>> Critical questions:>> If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is> there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It has> NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"?> This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no> other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it> would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-)>> Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a> video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP?>> Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device?>> How many harddrives are in your system?>> List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots.>> List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard> devices) that are on your motherboard.>> List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your> monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or> firewire) devices on your system.>> List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't...> '-)>> This should be good for starters... ;-)>>

[JustMee]

"magic air" is perfectly safe for your computer.. Dust is not... Dust
traps heat, and this is not a good thing... Just remember, do not
shake the can of "magic air" before using it.. (the temptation to do
so is great).....

hth,

JM

On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:31:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi Ben Hi, just wanted you to know that I checked the MB and couldn't seeanything oozing. I do have a question though. Since I have had my PC openmore, it has lots of dust on the motherboard and other parts. Is it safe touse the compressed air to clear out the dust. I hadn't noticed it until Igot the flashlight out and did a closer inspection.Thanks, Donna J.

[DJ]

Ben
Hi, will disconnect it tomorrow and take it outside as you suggested.
I had done a search online for motherboard capacitors and found one that
shows what to look for. Including bulging, leaking, some were lopsided and I
seen what the normal ones looked like too. I'll be able to get a better look
tomorrow when I take it outside.
Snow sounds good to me right now. It's been in the 90's here and we need
rain desperately.
Thanks again
Donna J.


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:40baaa1c.23437657@news.charter.net... Donna, There are a lot of people who claim that cleaning out the inside of a
computer with a can of compressed air is harmful to the computer. That is hogwash!
I do it all the time with my own and clients' computers. Never an ill effect.
If there is a lot of dust, take the open chassis outside and blow the dust
bunnies out into the air. Never when it is raining or snowing, tho. And with
the computer unplugged from the wall current, of course. In addition to oozing capacitors, another symptom of a bad capacitor is distortion from its normal cylindrical shape... Ben Myers On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:31:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi Ben Hi, just wanted you to know that I checked the MB and couldn't seeanything oozing. I do have a question though. Since I have had my PC openmore, it has lots of dust on the motherboard and other parts. Is it safe
touse the compressed air to clear out the dust. I hadn't noticed it until Igot the flashlight out and did a closer inspection.Thanks, Donna J.<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in messagenews:40b8953b.1047223@news.charter.net... Assuming that the 300w power supply is decent quality, it supplies morethan enough juice for the hardware you have. At this point, it is worth examining the capacitors on the motherboard
forany signs of bulging, loss of cylindrical shape, or even material which hasoozed out of the capacitors. For a while, the entire industry has been
troubledby poor quality capacitors manufactured somewhere on the Pacific Rim. In
the extreme cases, capacitors actually explode. Trigem is anything but aleader in the manufacture of high quality hardware. Trigem also makes/made the motherboards in the chintzy eMachines boxes. I would not be surprised
ifTrigem bought some of the junk capacitors on the cheap... Ben Myers On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:43:11 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >Morning Howd, >First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a
400. > >Old HD now installed 40 GB Seagate > >New HD disconnected 120 GB Western Digital > >Standard floppy disk drive > >Lucent Win Modem card > >Sony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device) > >HP Deskjet 3820 printer > >HP Pavilion MX70 monitor > >HP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3) > >PS/2 compatible mouse > >Below is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of the >actual MB. > >HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomita >http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc
=us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028 > >Thanks again, Donna J. > > > > > >"Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in message >news:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >> >> >Hi Mike, >> > I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want totake >any >> >chances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it
just >turns >> >off, no warning or error messages. >> > Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on
untilI >> >unplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. >> > Thanks for the help, >> >Donna J. >> > >> >"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message >> >news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >> >> Hi, >> >> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just
shutting >down >> >for >> >> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate)hard >> >> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but thepower >> >still >> >> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this?
It >happens >> >> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? >> >> Donna J. >> >> >> >> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another >> worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you
down. >> To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error >> messages before shutting down. >> >> No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm >> convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). >> There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother
board >> itself and the power supply. >> >> === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== >> >> The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage >> regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a
"TO-220" >> package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal >> with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called
"crowbar >> circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it >> literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much >> current through it (which causes its temperature to rise >> dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by >> immediately powering down. >> >> Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you >> can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp >> reset the crowbar. >> >> Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more
sophistcated >> current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and >> can exhibit the same problem. >> >> === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== >> >> The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the
problem >> should be fairly simple to locate. >> >> The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the >> problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many >> peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can
throw >> at it. So this is good. >> >> Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. >> >> Critical questions: >> >> If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is >> there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It
has >> NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? >> This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no >> other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it >> would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) >> >> Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a >> video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? >> >> Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? >> >> How many harddrives are in your system? >> >> List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. >> >> List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard >> devices) that are on your motherboard. >> >> List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your >> monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or >> firewire) devices on your system. >> >> List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... >> '-) >> >> This should be good for starters... ;-) >> >> > >

[DJ]

Hi JustMee
Do you happen to know why it can't be shook? Just curious.
Donna J.


JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0e1nb05d75svsfos6ja2hl88330f1cqma5@4ax.com... "magic air" is perfectly safe for your computer.. Dust is not... Dust traps heat, and this is not a good thing... Just remember, do not shake the can of "magic air" before using it.. (the temptation to do so is great)..... hth, JM On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:31:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi Ben Hi, just wanted you to know that I checked the MB and couldn't seeanything oozing. I do have a question though. Since I have had my PC openmore, it has lots of dust on the motherboard and other parts. Is it safe
touse the compressed air to clear out the dust. I hadn't noticed it until Igot the flashlight out and did a closer inspection.Thanks, Donna J.

[JustMee]

Sure do.. If you shake the can, you will get a blast of air mixed with
the propellant in the can at a much higher ratio, and the can will get
icy cold to the touch. I do not know if this is harmful to computer
parts, but it can be harmful to people.. You want as little propellant
as possible getting out, so you should never shake the can, nor tilt
it more than necessary.. It should be used upright as much as
possible.

hth,
JM

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:54:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi JustMee Do you happen to know why it can't be shook? Just curious.Donna J.JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in messagenews:0e1nb05d75svsfos6ja2hl88330f1cqma5@4ax.com... "magic air" is perfectly safe for your computer.. Dust is not... Dust traps heat, and this is not a good thing... Just remember, do not shake the can of "magic air" before using it.. (the temptation to do so is great)..... hth, JM

[DJ]

Hi JustMee
I didn't know that about the compressed air. Strange though, I used to be
in pest control and we used "Wasp Freeze" and we had to shake it several
times before using it. It also had a propellant, which was later removed
from the product. Talk about a useless product then. It used to shoot up to
12 feet, a nice distance from those wasps. After the chance it was lucky to
spray a 1 foot.
Thanks for the info,
Donna J.


"JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:i8gpb0tlr9qruvrkapdkte5v9gfanenaev@4ax.com... Sure do.. If you shake the can, you will get a blast of air mixed with the propellant in the can at a much higher ratio, and the can will get icy cold to the touch. I do not know if this is harmful to computer parts, but it can be harmful to people.. You want as little propellant as possible getting out, so you should never shake the can, nor tilt it more than necessary.. It should be used upright as much as possible. hth, JM On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:54:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi JustMee Do you happen to know why it can't be shook? Just curious.Donna J.JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in messagenews:0e1nb05d75svsfos6ja2hl88330f1cqma5@4ax.com... "magic air" is perfectly safe for your computer.. Dust is not... Dust traps heat, and this is not a good thing... Just remember, do not shake the can of "magic air" before using it.. (the temptation to do so is great)..... hth, JM

[DJ]

Hi Ben
Well I took my PC outside for a good dusting and after I finished I still
didn't see anything unusual about the capacitors. I feel better now that
it's clean again.
Thanks,
Donna J.

<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:40baaa1c.23437657@news.charter.net... Donna, There are a lot of people who claim that cleaning out the inside of a
computer with a can of compressed air is harmful to the computer. That is hogwash!
I do it all the time with my own and clients' computers. Never an ill effect.
If there is a lot of dust, take the open chassis outside and blow the dust
bunnies out into the air. Never when it is raining or snowing, tho. And with
the computer unplugged from the wall current, of course. In addition to oozing capacitors, another symptom of a bad capacitor is distortion from its normal cylindrical shape... Ben Myers On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:31:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi Ben Hi, just wanted you to know that I checked the MB and couldn't seeanything oozing. I do have a question though. Since I have had my PC openmore, it has lots of dust on the motherboard and other parts. Is it safe
touse the compressed air to clear out the dust. I hadn't noticed it until Igot the flashlight out and did a closer inspection.Thanks, Donna J.<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in messagenews:40b8953b.1047223@news.charter.net... Assuming that the 300w power supply is decent quality, it supplies morethan enough juice for the hardware you have. At this point, it is worth examining the capacitors on the motherboard
forany signs of bulging, loss of cylindrical shape, or even material which hasoozed out of the capacitors. For a while, the entire industry has been
troubledby poor quality capacitors manufactured somewhere on the Pacific Rim. In
the extreme cases, capacitors actually explode. Trigem is anything but aleader in the manufacture of high quality hardware. Trigem also makes/made the motherboards in the chintzy eMachines boxes. I would not be surprised
ifTrigem bought some of the junk capacitors on the cheap... Ben Myers On Sat, 29 May 2004 11:43:11 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >Morning Howd, >First I want to say the power supply is 300 watts. Wish now it was a
400. > >Old HD now installed 40 GB Seagate > >New HD disconnected 120 GB Western Digital > >Standard floppy disk drive > >Lucent Win Modem card > >Sony CD-RW CRX230E cd writer (just one CD rom device) > >HP Deskjet 3820 printer > >HP Pavilion MX70 monitor > >HP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3) > >PS/2 compatible mouse > >Below is information on the MB at the HP website with a picture of the >actual MB. > >HP Pavilion Desktop PCs - Motherboard Specifications, TriGem Lomita >http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=77623&lang=en&lc=en&cc
=us&dlc=en&docname=bph07028 > >Thanks again, Donna J. > > > > > >"Howd E. Doodat" <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote in message >news:29sfb0t732lvh3b8ldp81sq4jmlsm4hcgh@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:29:12 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >> >> >Hi Mike, >> > I've got the old hard drive going for now. Really don't want totake >any >> >chances messing up the new hard drive. As for the shutdown, it
just >turns >> >off, no warning or error messages. >> > Just as if someone unplugged the PC. It will not come back on
untilI >> >unplug the cord, wait a few minutes then plug it back in. >> > Thanks for the help, >> >Donna J. >> > >> >"DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote in message >> >news:kz7tc.30294$fF3.785318@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >> >> Hi, >> >> I posted a few months ago about my HP Pavilion 531w just
shutting >down >> >for >> >> no aparent reason. I ended up with bad sectors on my HP (Seagate)hard >> >> drive. Well I have another hard drive and power source, but thepower >> >still >> >> just shuts off. Can anyone think of any other reasons for this?
It >happens >> >> after the PC has been on for just a few minutes. Any ideas? >> >> Donna J. >> >> >> >> Okay, good. That fairly well eliminates the Sasser worm and another >> worm which name escapes me right now that are known to shut you
down. >> To the best of my knowledge, both these worms burp up system error >> messages before shutting down. >> >> No, I think it's time to place all the eggs in one basket now: I'm >> convinced this is a thermal problem (unrelated to fan cooling). >> There's 2 places where thermal shutdown is initiated, the mother
board >> itself and the power supply. >> >> === Begin more info that you really wanted to know section ======== >> >> The most vulnerable mobo points are what are known as "voltage >> regulator" chips. A VR is a simple device in what is called a
"TO-220" >> package (looks like a black chiclet stuck to a flat piece of metal >> with 3 legs coming out the bottom). VRs have what is called
"crowbar >> circuitry" built into them. What crowbar circuitry does is it >> literally "shorts itself out" if something starts drawing too much >> current through it (which causes its temperature to rise >> dramatically). The power supply reacts to this short circuit by >> immediately powering down. >> >> Result: Your computer suddenly shuts off with no warning, and you >> can't power back up again until the component cools off enough tp >> reset the crowbar. >> >> Main power supplies are a bit more complex and have more
sophistcated >> current monitoring. But they too use crowbars at certain points, and >> can exhibit the same problem. >> >> === end more info that you really wanted to know section ======== >> >> The good news is that (unless you have a bad motherboard) the
problem >> should be fairly simple to locate. >> >> The fact that you now have a more powerful PS and still have the >> problem indicates that this isn't a simple case of "too many >> peripherals". 400 watts will handle damned near anything you can
throw >> at it. So this is good. >> >> Now we can begin the PITA process of zeroing in on the problem. >> >> Critical questions: >> >> If we did something to your system and then you powered it up, is >> there some point at which you could say with utter certainty: "It
has >> NEVER stayed running this long without shutting down"? >> This question is MOST critical since it would appear that we have no >> other measure of success or failure, and if you can answer "yes" it >> would certainly make ME feel a lot better.... ;-) >> >> Is your video card integrated onto the system board or do you have a >> video card? If you have a card, is it PCI or AGP? >> >> Besides your new CDRW, do you have another CD-ROM device? >> >> How many harddrives are in your system? >> >> List and identify ALL the cards that are plugged into your slots. >> >> List and identify any integrated system peripherals (AKA: onboard >> devices) that are on your motherboard. >> >> List any external peripherals that you have or use such as your >> monitor, printer, any USB or serial or ieee1394 (AKA i-link or >> firewire) devices on your system. >> >> List any other peripherals that you might think of that I haven't... >> '-) >> >> This should be good for starters... ;-) >> >> > >

[Ben Myers]

Some compressed air products do not have a propellant. The label on the can
usually tells... Ben Myers

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 20:35:55 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:
Hi JustMee I didn't know that about the compressed air. Strange though, I used to bein pest control and we used "Wasp Freeze" and we had to shake it severaltimes before using it. It also had a propellant, which was later removedfrom the product. Talk about a useless product then. It used to shoot up to12 feet, a nice distance from those wasps. After the chance it was lucky tospray a 1 foot.Thanks for the info,Donna J."JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in messagenews:i8gpb0tlr9qruvrkapdkte5v9gfanenaev@4ax.com... Sure do.. If you shake the can, you will get a blast of air mixed with the propellant in the can at a much higher ratio, and the can will get icy cold to the touch. I do not know if this is harmful to computer parts, but it can be harmful to people.. You want as little propellant as possible getting out, so you should never shake the can, nor tilt it more than necessary.. It should be used upright as much as possible. hth, JM On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:54:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi JustMee Do you happen to know why it can't be shook? Just curious.Donna J.JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in messagenews:0e1nb05d75svsfos6ja2hl88330f1cqma5@4ax.com...> "magic air" is perfectly safe for your computer.. Dust is not... Dust> traps heat, and this is not a good thing... Just remember, do not> shake the can of "magic air" before using it.. (the temptation to do> so is great).....>> hth,>> JM

[DJ]

Thanks Ben, I'll check the label.
Donna J.


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:40bced67.33323779@news.charter.net... Some compressed air products do not have a propellant. The label on the
can usually tells... Ben Myers On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 20:35:55 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote:Hi JustMee I didn't know that about the compressed air. Strange though, I used to
bein pest control and we used "Wasp Freeze" and we had to shake it severaltimes before using it. It also had a propellant, which was later removedfrom the product. Talk about a useless product then. It used to shoot up
to12 feet, a nice distance from those wasps. After the chance it was lucky
tospray a 1 foot.Thanks for the info,Donna J."JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in messagenews:i8gpb0tlr9qruvrkapdkte5v9gfanenaev@4ax.com... Sure do.. If you shake the can, you will get a blast of air mixed with the propellant in the can at a much higher ratio, and the can will get icy cold to the touch. I do not know if this is harmful to computer parts, but it can be harmful to people.. You want as little propellant as possible getting out, so you should never shake the can, nor tilt it more than necessary.. It should be used upright as much as possible. hth, JM On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:54:38 GMT, "DJ" <DJ@nomorespamatt.net> wrote: >Hi JustMee > Do you happen to know why it can't be shook? Just curious. >Donna J. > > >JustMee" <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote in message >news:0e1nb05d75svsfos6ja2hl88330f1cqma5@4ax.com... >> "magic air" is perfectly safe for your computer.. Dust is not...
Dust >> traps heat, and this is not a good thing... Just remember, do not >> shake the can of "magic air" before using it.. (the temptation to do >> so is great)..... >> >> hth, >> >> JM