Duplexer works in HP 8150 but not in HP 8100?

[Adam Megacz]

This is really strange... I got a duplexer unit for my HP 8100
(originally HP8100DN, but the duplexer and network card were removed
before I salvaged it). It doesn't work in that printer (always jams
with a page printed on one side, positioned halfway through the
duplexer). OTOH, it *does* work in the HP8150DN on campus (swapped my
duplexer for theirs).

I'd like to try some of the 8150's parts (fuser, duplexer) in my
printer, but I can't really remove printer parts from campus and take
them home. I could bring my printer to school, but I'm hoping to find
a solution that requires less heavy lifting than that ;)

BTW, exactly what is the difference between an 8100X and an 8150X
aside from the extra memory?

Also, does anybody know how to discern the difference between an "old"
duplexer (HP model C3762A) and a "new" duplexer (HP model C4782A)? I
think I have the latter, but I'm not 100% certain.

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer!

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?admit=716493758+1091580007539+28353475&CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xfd2e36e69499d611abdb0090277a778c%2C00.html&forumId=2

- a

[Marek Williams]

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:42:38 -0700, Adam Megacz <adam@megacz.com>
dijo:
Also, does anybody know how to discern the difference between an "old"duplexer (HP model C3762A) and a "new" duplexer (HP model C4782A)? Ithink I have the latter, but I'm not 100% certain.

Can't help with your other questions, but I do know the answer to this
one.

When HP first started selling Canon WX engine printers, the original
model was called the 5Si. Shortly thereafter Lexmark was born and
started selling the same thing as the Optra N. In these printers most
things were interchangeable. At the time, the duplexer unit was
labeled C3762A.

Later HP came out with the Mopier 240. This was the first of the "RIP
once, print many" printers. In the 5Si and equivalents with other
badges on them, the printer could print multiple copies collated only
if the software had the ability to concatenate individual print jobs
into a massive spool file. I know. I have a 5Si here. It was my first
WX engine printer, and I used it exclusively for many years. To create
100 copies of a 50-page chapter in a book from PageMaker would create
a spool file of 1.5 Gb. The big advantage of "RIP once, print many"
technology is that the software has to send the print job only once,
with a counter for the number of copies, even if the print job is to
be collated. In HP-speak, "RIP once, print many" is called "mopying,"
for "multiple original copies."

Why did HP (and others) do this? Very simple. Some suit in the
marketing department suddenly figured out that copy machines were
their big competitors. After all, HP makes way more money on toner
carts than they do on printers. At the time Suzie Secretary was making
one copy on the laser printer and taking it to the Xerox machine to
make 100 copies for the sales meeting in the morning. If she could
print all 100 copies on the laser HP would sell lots more toner, at
the expense of Xerox, one of their big competitors.

Eventually HP made some more changes to the software inside the Mopier
240 and rebadged it as the Laserjet 8000. At the time, they also
changed the sofware interface in the 8000 to do a few new tricks with
the duplexer unit. Thus, the duplexer unit was enhanced and renamed
the C4782A.

Bottom line: The C3762A will work in the 5Si, Mopier 240 and 8000. The
C4782A (which first started shipping with the 8000), works in the 5Si,
Mopier 240, 8000 series, 8100 series, and 8500 series. So if you have
a choice, go for the C4782A, as it will hold you in future upgrades.
On the other hand, if you have (like me) only 5Si and 8000 printers,
then the C3762A will do fine for either, and is lots cheaper on eBay.

BTW, the "Canon WX engine" includes everything from the 5Si through
the 8100. However, the 8100 series was the last of the WX engine line.
And even then it uses a different toner cart. Except for the increased
speed, the 8100 is otherwise pretty much the same as the previous
incarnations.

One more thing: The reliability of the duplexer unit is strange. The
duplexer in my 5Si is still working flawlessly after 3 million copies.
The duplexer that came with my 8000 started causing jams at 100,000
copies. I bought a replacement on eBay (used, from an 8000), and it's
still working flawlessly at 1.5 million impressions. Evidently, when
you get a good one it lasts forever.

--
Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.

[Adam Megacz]

Marek, thanks for the detailed reply! However:

1. If I am holding a duplexer unit in my hand, how can I determine if
it's a C3762A or a C4782A? It doesn't appear to be written on it.

2. If the 8100 is so similar to the 8000, why won't the C3762A work in
it? Is it the page speed? If so, is there any way I can slow down
the print speed to match the 8000?

Thanks!

- a


Marek Williams <abc@example.com> writes: On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:42:38 -0700, Adam Megacz <adam@megacz.com> dijo:Also, does anybody know how to discern the difference between an "old"duplexer (HP model C3762A) and a "new" duplexer (HP model C4782A)? Ithink I have the latter, but I'm not 100% certain. Can't help with your other questions, but I do know the answer to this one. When HP first started selling Canon WX engine printers, the original model was called the 5Si. Shortly thereafter Lexmark was born and started selling the same thing as the Optra N. In these printers most things were interchangeable. At the time, the duplexer unit was labeled C3762A. Later HP came out with the Mopier 240. This was the first of the "RIP once, print many" printers. In the 5Si and equivalents with other badges on them, the printer could print multiple copies collated only if the software had the ability to concatenate individual print jobs into a massive spool file. I know. I have a 5Si here. It was my first WX engine printer, and I used it exclusively for many years. To create 100 copies of a 50-page chapter in a book from PageMaker would create a spool file of 1.5 Gb. The big advantage of "RIP once, print many" technology is that the software has to send the print job only once, with a counter for the number of copies, even if the print job is to be collated. In HP-speak, "RIP once, print many" is called "mopying," for "multiple original copies." Why did HP (and others) do this? Very simple. Some suit in the marketing department suddenly figured out that copy machines were their big competitors. After all, HP makes way more money on toner carts than they do on printers. At the time Suzie Secretary was making one copy on the laser printer and taking it to the Xerox machine to make 100 copies for the sales meeting in the morning. If she could print all 100 copies on the laser HP would sell lots more toner, at the expense of Xerox, one of their big competitors. Eventually HP made some more changes to the software inside the Mopier 240 and rebadged it as the Laserjet 8000. At the time, they also changed the sofware interface in the 8000 to do a few new tricks with the duplexer unit. Thus, the duplexer unit was enhanced and renamed the C4782A. Bottom line: The C3762A will work in the 5Si, Mopier 240 and 8000. The C4782A (which first started shipping with the 8000), works in the 5Si, Mopier 240, 8000 series, 8100 series, and 8500 series. So if you have a choice, go for the C4782A, as it will hold you in future upgrades. On the other hand, if you have (like me) only 5Si and 8000 printers, then the C3762A will do fine for either, and is lots cheaper on eBay. BTW, the "Canon WX engine" includes everything from the 5Si through the 8100. However, the 8100 series was the last of the WX engine line. And even then it uses a different toner cart. Except for the increased speed, the 8100 is otherwise pretty much the same as the previous incarnations. One more thing: The reliability of the duplexer unit is strange. The duplexer in my 5Si is still working flawlessly after 3 million copies. The duplexer that came with my 8000 started causing jams at 100,000 copies. I bought a replacement on eBay (used, from an 8000), and it's still working flawlessly at 1.5 million impressions. Evidently, when you get a good one it lasts forever. -- Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.

--

[Marek Williams]

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:51:34 -0700, Adam Megacz <adam@megacz.com>
dijo:
1. If I am holding a duplexer unit in my hand, how can I determine if it's a C3762A or a C4782A? It doesn't appear to be written on it.

I wish I knew the answer to that. There is a barcode on a label on the
side, but otherwise they look identical. The barcode on the side of my
C3762A has the numbers LCE99723 underneath it. In the same position on
my C4782A the barcode label is slightly smaller and has the numbers
LFN0099267 under it. The C3762A is a lighter shade of gray, but I'm
not sure that is determinative. I've seen a lot of C3762As on eBay and
they looked darker than mine, and I've seen a lot of C4782As on eBay
and the pics looked like the lighter shade.

There are some other subtle differences. At a casual glance they look
the same, but when I look carefully I see a few small things. Looking
at it from the top, there is a steel "axle" running left to right,
with a black rubber wheel in the middle. The wheel has a flat side.
Looking at the top of the case to the right of the "axle" there is a
slot in the plastic case. On the C3762A the slot is about big enough
to slip a 50 cent piece into. On the C4782A it has a cutaway on the
right side of the slot. I also note on the C3762A there is a panel
molded into the plastic case just to the right of the barcode label
and it lists 14 patent numbers. In the same location on the C4782A it
just says "Made in Japan/Fabriqué au Japon" instead of the panel with
the patent numbers. Also, just in front of the left side of the "axle"
there is a wedge sticking up. Looks like it would almost fit in the
slot I described earlier. On the C3762A it is a bit less than a
quarter inch wide, and about an inch and a quarter long. On the C4782A
it is the same length, but a bit thinner, and has a bump on the sides
about a third of the way from the front. Looking at them from the
underside the two little tits on the front that hold it in position
are different. On the C4782A both are identical. On the C3762A they
are the same size and look the same from the top, but underneath the
ribs inside them are different between the left one and the right one.

I don't know if any of that helps. Maybe someone else can interpret
the barcode numbers for us.
2. If the 8100 is so similar to the 8000, why won't the C3762A work in it? Is it the page speed? If so, is there any way I can slow down the print speed to match the 8000?

They changed the electronics in it. For example, a few times I've had
a jam in the 8000 where the display panel said "check duplexer." When
I use the duplexer from the 5Si in the 8000 there may be a jam in the
duplexer, but that message is never triggered. The C3762A isn't quite
as smart. They probably added some additional sensors in the C4782A.

--
Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.

[Adam Megacz]

Marek, thank you so much. I'm pretty certain that I have the newer
C4782A. One more question:
2. If the 8100 is so similar to the 8000, why won't the C3762A work in it? Is it the page speed? If so, is there any way I can slow down the print speed to match the 8000?
They changed the electronics in it. For example, a few times I've had a jam in the 8000 where the display panel said "check duplexer." When I use the duplexer from the 5Si in the 8000 there may be a jam in the duplexer, but that message is never triggered. The C3762A isn't quite as smart. They probably added some additional sensors in the C4782A.

Right, I think there was a bit of confusion here. I tried the same
duplexer unit in both an 8100 and an 8150 -- it worked in the 8150 but
not the 8100.

So the question I'm curious about is: what's the difference between
the 8150 and 8100 (I understand the difference between the C3762A and
the C4782A).

- a

[news]

Sounds stupidly, but you have to replace the fuser !


"Adam Megacz" <adam@megacz.com> schreef in bericht
news:x1d627g2dd.fsf@nowhere.com... This is really strange... I got a duplexer unit for my HP 8100 (originally HP8100DN, but the duplexer and network card were removed before I salvaged it). It doesn't work in that printer (always jams with a page printed on one side, positioned halfway through the duplexer). OTOH, it *does* work in the HP8150DN on campus (swapped my duplexer for theirs). I'd like to try some of the 8150's parts (fuser, duplexer) in my printer, but I can't really remove printer parts from campus and take them home. I could bring my printer to school, but I'm hoping to find a solution that requires less heavy lifting than that ;) BTW, exactly what is the difference between an 8100X and an 8150X aside from the extra memory? Also, does anybody know how to discern the difference between an "old" duplexer (HP model C3762A) and a "new" duplexer (HP model C4782A)? I think I have the latter, but I'm not 100% certain. Thanks for any help or advice you can offer!
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?admit=716493758+1091580007539+28353475&CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xfd2e36e69499d611abdb0090277a778c%2C00.html&forumId=2 - a

[Marek Williams]

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 11:57:53 -0700, Adam Megacz <adam@megacz.com>
dijo:
Right, I think there was a bit of confusion here. I tried the sameduplexer unit in both an 8100 and an 8150 -- it worked in the 8150 butnot the 8100.So the question I'm curious about is: what's the difference betweenthe 8150 and 8100 (I understand the difference between the C3762A andthe C4782A).

That's odd. The C4782A is supposed to be compatible through the 8500
family. If might be interesting to see what the part numbers are for
the 8100 and the 8150. I bet they're the same. If so, then something
else is going on. Maybe there is a fault in the 8100 -- bad connector
or something.

As for the difference between the 8100 and the 8150, I don't know for
sure. My dim understanding is that they are more or less the same, but
the 8150 has a few enhancements. I think the CPU is faster in the
8150. And I think they added some infrared stuff. I have never owned
either one, so I have no direct information.

--
Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.

[Adam Megacz]

Y'know, the guy who sold me the refurbed fuser just said the same
thing; in general refurbished fusers don't work with a duplexer in the
8100. He gave me my money back.

Wierd stuff. Apparently when the paper goes through for a second
pass, the ink gets stuck on the fuser; you have to get a newer-model
fuser if you want to use a duplexer.

- a



"news" <invalidmail@skynet.be> writes: Sounds stupidly, but you have to replace the fuser ! "Adam Megacz" <adam@megacz.com> schreef in bericht news:x1d627g2dd.fsf@nowhere.com... This is really strange... I got a duplexer unit for my HP 8100 (originally HP8100DN, but the duplexer and network card were removed before I salvaged it). It doesn't work in that printer (always jams with a page printed on one side, positioned halfway through the duplexer). OTOH, it *does* work in the HP8150DN on campus (swapped my duplexer for theirs). I'd like to try some of the 8150's parts (fuser, duplexer) in my printer, but I can't really remove printer parts from campus and take them home. I could bring my printer to school, but I'm hoping to find a solution that requires less heavy lifting than that ;) BTW, exactly what is the difference between an 8100X and an 8150X aside from the extra memory? Also, does anybody know how to discern the difference between an "old" duplexer (HP model C3762A) and a "new" duplexer (HP model C4782A)? I think I have the latter, but I'm not 100% certain. Thanks for any help or advice you can offer! http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?admit=716493758+1091580007539+28353475&CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xfd2e36e69499d611abdb0090277a778c%2C00.html&forumId=2 - a

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