Computer serial number.

[qWake]

I have read that one way to identify a PC is by using the BIOS serial number
found at location FE00. Is this true for all BIOS chips? And if not, what
else might be a good way to identify a system? I am thinking BIOS, but also
motherboard, CPU and even hard drive (not the labile volume ID though). I
would not consider easily-changed cards and adaptors like the network
card...

[Charles Howse]

Previously qWake <mail@qwake.com> wrote: I have read that one way to identify a PC is by using the BIOS serial number found at location FE00. Is this true for all BIOS chips?

Does not help. The searial number is unique for the BIOS, but not
the computer.
And if not, what else might be a good way to identify a system?

MS tried several things for their produce activation: Basically all suck.
I am thinking BIOS, but also motherboard, CPU and even hard drive (not the labile volume ID though). I would not consider easily-changed cards and adaptors like the network card...

There is your problem: Everything can be changed. Including mainboard,
CPU, HDD, etc. When does the computer start being a different one?

So here is you basic problem: What defines the identity of the computer
for your purpose?

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
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"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

[qWake]

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ievvaFmnsc5U2@uni-berlin.de...
There is your problem: Everything can be changed. Including mainboard, CPU, HDD, etc. When does the computer start being a different one? So here is you basic problem: What defines the identity of the computer for your purpose?

The idea is to restrict usage of a product to one system, which means to one
unique system component. There is only one motherboard in a system, only
one BIOS, in most cases only one CPU (and only one at position 0 in
multi-processor systems), etc. So it does not really matter which of these
is used. As long as a serial number can be reliably obtained from one of
these possible parts, this is the component the software would be licensed
for. It just cannot be the BIOS in one system, the motherboard in another,
etc.

So the question is: is there a "relatively stationary" hardware component
which can be uniquely identified with a serial number? If the answer is
really "no" then I guess we're done with this thread. Please don't anyone
say a quick "no" just to be done with it! ;-)

[Charles Howse]

Previously qWake <mail@qwake.com> wrote: "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:2ievvaFmnsc5U2@uni-berlin.de...
There is your problem: Everything can be changed. Including mainboard, CPU, HDD, etc. When does the computer start being a different one? So here is you basic problem: What defines the identity of the computer for your purpose?
The idea is to restrict usage of a product to one system, which means to one unique system component. There is only one motherboard in a system, only one BIOS, in most cases only one CPU (and only one at position 0 in multi-processor systems), etc. So it does not really matter which of these is used. As long as a serial number can be reliably obtained from one of these possible parts, this is the component the software would be licensed for. It just cannot be the BIOS in one system, the motherboard in another, etc.
So the question is: is there a "relatively stationary" hardware component which can be uniquely identified with a serial number? If the answer is

And which is not normally exchanged? No, there is no such component.
Every component can break. Every component can be changed to upgrade
a system. So unless you want to royally piss off your customers by
causing them serious pain, when they, e.g., replace a flaky HDD,
or try to recover from some othert hardware failure, don't do this.
really "no" then I guess we're done with this thread. Please don't anyone say a quick "no" just to be done with it! ;-)

Well, it can be done, e.g. with HDD serial number, but it has serious
drawbacks. It might even open you to liability, if you make the use
of a backup system impossible by this and not explicitely tell your
customers. But if you tell them and they have at least some computer
experience, they will likely stay far away from this kind of crippled
product.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

[qWake]

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2if7alFmhr0dU1@uni-berlin.de...

Thanks for your input, it's all valuable! I understand what you are talking
about with pissing off some clients. But the marketting/licensing/liability
considerations are not my own concern here, just feasibility of the
approach.
Well, it can be done, e.g. with HDD serial number,

Then it is possible to link a product to only one particular hard drive,
which would qualify. But is there a standard way to identify this, or does
it vary across manufacturers? Because it has to be a hardware serial
number, not the volume information number.

[Greg]

I understand Gates is doing some of this with XP. He creates an algorithm of
the various serial numbers that get reported when you install the software and
then it refuses to run if too many of them change suddenly ... or so I
understand it. I am still a W9x guy when I boot the "hairball" at all. I still
like DOS when it can get the job done.

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 23:02:00 UTC, "qWake" <mail@qWake.com> wrote:
So the question is: is there a "relatively stationary" hardware component which can be uniquely identified with a serial number? If the answer is really "no" then I guess we're done with this thread. Please don't anyone say a quick "no" just to be done with it! ;-)

The answer is 'no', though. There have been schemes tried which record
type and size of several components and allow one o two (say) to be
changed. But then they require re-registration if more chnage. This is
basically what M$ do with XP, although its' a little more complex than
that. You can Google for some details.

This whole method of copy protection sucks, though. Better perhaps to
give a unique license ID that is some function of the user's name - and
make that visible. Pirated copies will display the registered users's
name!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

[Brian]

qWake <mail@qwake.com> wrote: So the question is: is there a "relatively stationary" hardware component which can be uniquely identified with a serial number? If the answer is really "no" then I guess we're done with this thread. Please don't anyone say a quick "no" just to be done with it! ;-)

That's a pretty decent definition of a dongle, except the serial number
would be a lame delegation.

[Charles Howse]

Previously qWake <mail@qwake.com> wrote: "Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:2if7alFmhr0dU1@uni-berlin.de...
Thanks for your input, it's all valuable! I understand what you are talking about with pissing off some clients. But the marketting/licensing/liability considerations are not my own concern here, just feasibility of the approach.

O.K., but please pass on the fundamental problem of making
a customer dependent on a specific pice of hardware. And please
pass on that the customer has to be told about this in advance!
Well, it can be done, e.g. with HDD serial number,
Then it is possible to link a product to only one particular hard drive, which would qualify. But is there a standard way to identify this, or does it vary across manufacturers? Because it has to be a hardware serial number, not the volume information number.

E.g. a SMART query. Example in Linux:

root ~>smartctl -a /dev/hda
smartctl version 5.30 Copyright (C) 2002-4 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: Maxtor 6Y200P0
Serial Number: Y60DLF16
Firmware Version: YAR41BW0
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Sun Jun 6 23:19:09 2004 CEST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled
[...]

The third line is the serial number. Togerther with the model
number in the second line, this uniquely identifies the HDD.
Look into the SMART definition (should be available on the web),
for the exact limits and contents of the fields.

There are several SMART utilities in Linux, so there is source
code you can look at. Don't know about open source SMART utils
for other OSses.

Arno


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For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

[qWake]

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ihgctFnd2qhU1@uni-berlin.de...
E.g. a SMART query.

Thank you Arno!

[David Derrick]

In article <10c4k7cmkdgacc2@corp.supernews.com>, qWake wrote:
So the question is: is there a "relatively stationary" hardware componentwhich can be uniquely identified with a serial number? If the answer isreally "no" then I guess we're done with this thread. Please don't anyonesay a quick "no" just to be done with it! ;-)

It is possible to write a string into an unused area of a BIOS which can
then be read back and used for this sort of purpose. It's how OEM's such
as Compaq and Dell BIOS lock the copies of Windows which they ship with
their systems. You can do something similar on the hard drive as well.
Of course, this would only work if you're supplying the software with a
computer you've built.

Dave
--
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary,
and those who don't.