Old Floppy Disks Won't Read

[Matt]

I have 20 old floppy disks I need to access. They are high-density
disks. They were bought pre-formatted, and the files were saved with
Windows 95 (can't remember if it was OEM or version b) circa 1995-98.

I am now trying to access them using a PC running Windows XP Pro SP2.
But I get: "The disk in drive A is not formatted. Would you like to
format it now?"

I have done some research and I think the problem has to do with the
MBR of the floppies, which are somehow different or nonexistant so
Windows XP can't read them. I found a Microsoft document (KB 140060)
describing this problem and as a workaround says to use DiskProbe to
edit or change the BIOS parameter block (BPB) of the boot sector. I
have DiskProbe but am scared to use it, fearing I will permanently mess
up the floppies.

I have also tried accessing the floppies from three other PCs (all
Compaqs circa 1996) - one running Windows 95b, one running Windows
98se, and one running Windows 2000.

Has anyone had a similar experience and found an easier solution?

Sorry if this is old news, and thanks for any help.

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:49:33 UTC, "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote:
I have 20 old floppy disks I need to access. They are high-density disks. They were bought pre-formatted, and the files were saved with Windows 95 (can't remember if it was OEM or version b) circa 1995-98.

If they were preformatted, they are more likely to have gone bad, IME.
I have done some research and I think the problem has to do with the MBR of the floppies

Presumably you mean the boot sector. Floppies don't have an MBR, as
such.
which are somehow different or nonexistant so Windows XP can't read them. I found a Microsoft document (KB 140060) describing this problem and as a workaround says to use DiskProbe to edit or change the BIOS parameter block (BPB) of the boot sector. I have DiskProbe but am scared to use it, fearing I will permanently mess up the floppies.

Can't see why that would be so.
I have also tried accessing the floppies from three other PCs (all Compaqs circa 1996) - one running Windows 95b, one running Windows 98se, and one running Windows 2000.

If they're bad, they're bad.

The best way to proceed is to see if they are readable at all. Find an
old machine with DOS on it, and see if it'll read them. If not, they're
bad. If it can, either use INTERLNK or something to transfer the
contents, or proceed with other suggested solutions.
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

[Matt]

Thanks Bob! How/why do 20 floppy disks (that have been in a nice
protected case together all this time) 'go bad'?

I'll try accessing them from the Windows 95 PC via DOS - any specific
version of DOS you think I should need?

I've never heard of Interlnk - i'll check it out.

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:41:47 UTC, "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Bob! How/why do 20 floppy disks (that have been in a nice protected case together all this time) 'go bad'?

Because the material slowly demagnetises....heat can accelerate this,
but just time is enough, and that's a *long* time. Pre-formatted
diskettes are often weakly formatted so the formatting fades more
quickly - I never trust preformatting and always re-do it.
I'll try accessing them from the Windows 95 PC via DOS - any specific version of DOS you think I should need?

Any version from 3.3 onwards...possibly 3.2. But if you get 5 or 6, then
it'll come with...
I've never heard of Interlnk - i'll check it out.

Interlnk. Basically quite a nice program for transferring files using
serial ports. Ideal in this kind of scenario as it takes less than 5
minutes to set up.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

[Matt]

I didn't know disks degraded like that, or that formatting can make
such a difference. Excellent info, thanks again!

-Matt

[Michael Hawes]

"Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112980289.866623.237930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... I didn't know disks degraded like that, or that formatting can make such a difference. Excellent info, thanks again! -Matt
If the Data is worth the trouble, SPINRITE, a commercial program, from
www.grc.com is a Drive testing and data recovery program which also works on
floppies. It keeps rereading the drive until it can reconstruct the data.
Mike.

[Franc Zabkar]

On 8 Apr 2005 08:41:47 -0700, "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> put finger
to keyboard and composed:
Thanks Bob! How/why do 20 floppy disks (that have been in a niceprotected case together all this time) 'go bad'?I'll try accessing them from the Windows 95 PC via DOS - any specificversion of DOS you think I should need?I've never heard of Interlnk - i'll check it out.

At the DOS prompt on a Win95 system type "help interlnk". You should
see an explanation of the command and a layout for the null modem
cable. If not, then you may need to copy the relevant files from the
Oldmsdos directory of your Win95 CD to the \Windows\Command directory
on your HD.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

[Franc Zabkar]

On 8 Apr 2005 07:49:33 -0700, "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> put finger
to keyboard and composed:
I have 20 old floppy disks I need to access. They are high-densitydisks. They were bought pre-formatted, and the files were saved withWindows 95 (can't remember if it was OEM or version b) circa 1995-98.I am now trying to access them using a PC running Windows XP Pro SP2.But I get: "The disk in drive A is not formatted. Would you like toformat it now?"

I have seen mould destroy diskettes. You can check for this by sliding
back the metal door and rotating the disc by turning the hub. You can
also see any circular scratches caused by dirty heads.
I have done some research and I think the problem has to do with theMBR of the floppies, which are somehow different or nonexistant soWindows XP can't read them. I found a Microsoft document (KB 140060)describing this problem and as a workaround says to use DiskProbe toedit or change the BIOS parameter block (BPB) of the boot sector. Ihave DiskProbe but am scared to use it, fearing I will permanently messup the floppies.

I think this is the MSKB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;140060

You can read and write the floppy boot sector using the DOS debug
command that ships with Win9x.

debug
-L 100 0 0 1 <-- loads sector 0 of drive 0 (0=A, 1=B) into memory
-d 100 2ff <-- dumps the boot sector to screen
-d 115 115 <-- displays the media descriptor byte (f0 for 1.44MB)

-e 115 <-- changes the media descriptor byte from 00 to F0
12EF:0115 00.F0
-w 100 0 0 1 <-- writes the modified boot sector
-q <-- quits debug
I have also tried accessing the floppies from three other PCs (allCompaqs circa 1996) - one running Windows 95b, one running Windows98se, and one running Windows 2000.Has anyone had a similar experience and found an easier solution?Sorry if this is old news, and thanks for any help.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

[James]

"Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112971773.054590.248120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...I have 20 old floppy disks I need to access. They are high-density disks. They were bought pre-formatted, and the files were saved with Windows 95 (can't remember if it was OEM or version b) circa 1995-98. I am now trying to access them using a PC running Windows XP Pro SP2. But I get: "The disk in drive A is not formatted. Would you like to format it now?" I have done some research and I think the problem has to do with the MBR of the floppies, which are somehow different or nonexistant so Windows XP can't read them. I found a Microsoft document (KB 140060) describing this problem and as a workaround says to use DiskProbe to edit or change the BIOS parameter block (BPB) of the boot sector. I have DiskProbe but am scared to use it, fearing I will permanently mess up the floppies. I have also tried accessing the floppies from three other PCs (all Compaqs circa 1996) - one running Windows 95b, one running Windows 98se, and one running Windows 2000. Has anyone had a similar experience and found an easier solution? Sorry if this is old news, and thanks for any help.

If the data on them was *important* to you, it should have been secured
long ago on something more reliable like CDR.

Floppy disks are unreliable at best. I can remember many instances when
they let me down.

Chances are your floppies will never be readable again....

I pretty much dumped floppy disks as storage media in 1995 when I moved to
CDR. The first CDR I wrote in 1995 (1x by the way, it took 1hour 20
minutes to write 600mb to it!) and is still readable today with no problems.
I made a point of dating the disc and keeping it safe, just to see what life
a CDR's data had. Ten years and still going strong.

Something I learned a long time ago... >>> NEVER trust a floppy disk <<<

[Data Recovery]

Hello,

Maybe your drive is broken... You can search for spare parts on this
website www.ultratec.co.uk you can also order online of talk to
someone live online!

tyhnx

val


"James" <james876@no-spam-now.freeserve.com> wrote in message news:<3bsjt7F6icrvcU1@individual.net>... "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1112971773.054590.248120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...I have 20 old floppy disks I need to access. They are high-density disks. They were bought pre-formatted, and the files were saved with Windows 95 (can't remember if it was OEM or version b) circa 1995-98. I am now trying to access them using a PC running Windows XP Pro SP2. But I get: "The disk in drive A is not formatted. Would you like to format it now?" I have done some research and I think the problem has to do with the MBR of the floppies, which are somehow different or nonexistant so Windows XP can't read them. I found a Microsoft document (KB 140060) describing this problem and as a workaround says to use DiskProbe to edit or change the BIOS parameter block (BPB) of the boot sector. I have DiskProbe but am scared to use it, fearing I will permanently mess up the floppies. I have also tried accessing the floppies from three other PCs (all Compaqs circa 1996) - one running Windows 95b, one running Windows 98se, and one running Windows 2000. Has anyone had a similar experience and found an easier solution? Sorry if this is old news, and thanks for any help. If the data on them was *important* to you, it should have been secured long ago on something more reliable like CDR. Floppy disks are unreliable at best. I can remember many instances when they let me down. Chances are your floppies will never be readable again.... I pretty much dumped floppy disks as storage media in 1995 when I moved to CDR. The first CDR I wrote in 1995 (1x by the way, it took 1hour 20 minutes to write 600mb to it!) and is still readable today with no problems. I made a point of dating the disc and keeping it safe, just to see what life a CDR's data had. Ten years and still going strong. Something I learned a long time ago... >>> NEVER trust a floppy disk <<<

[Charlie+]

On 8 Apr 2005 07:49:33 -0700, "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote as
underneath my scribble :

The recommendations by others to a DOS system and to Spinrite (use
version 5 which works straight from a bootable floppy) are good.
However the very first thing I would do would be to try other floppy
drive(s) as the most likely reason you see nothing is that your drive
is misaligned to the original formatting and floppy drives are dumb in
alignment - ie. there is no self correction loop for this problem.
Floppies should be fine even recorded in the 1980s as long as not
stored wildly hot or near magnetic fields (speakers etc).
NB. Most people blindly used floppies but never checked immediately
after recording that they were readable and error free, a very basic
error which continues unabated into todays CD/DVD data era!
Charlie+
I have 20 old floppy disks I need to access. They are high-densitydisks. They were bought pre-formatted, and the files were saved withWindows 95 (can't remember if it was OEM or version b) circa 1995-98.
SNIP

[Charles Howse]

Previously Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net> wrote: On 8 Apr 2005 07:49:33 -0700, "Matt" <mattball05@gmail.com> wrote as underneath my scribble :
The recommendations by others to a DOS system and to Spinrite (use version 5 which works straight from a bootable floppy) are good. However the very first thing I would do would be to try other floppy drive(s) as the most likely reason you see nothing is that your drive is misaligned to the original formatting and floppy drives are dumb in alignment - ie. there is no self correction loop for this problem. Floppies should be fine even recorded in the 1980s as long as not stored wildly hot or near magnetic fields (speakers etc). NB. Most people blindly used floppies but never checked immediately after recording that they were readable and error free, a very basic error which continues unabated into todays CD/DVD data era! Charlie+

And one that the only reliable long-term storage medium that
individuals can afford does not make by design: MOD does a verify
of every write in the drive and reallocates defective sectors on
write. That way the drive can also use a read mode more sensitive
to errors than a software-verify can use.

Even modern HDDs do that only on reads (i.e. never or much
later in the worst case). DVD-RAM does it only if the cartridge
is removed and then only in the driver AFAIK.

Arno