Bizarre CD-R problems - what am I missing?

[Walter Wright]

Hi all,

Having now converted about a dozen CD-Rs into coasters, I've started seeking
help. I've cChecked Google, the CDR-FAQ and a couple of utilities I found on
the net, but still no success. XP reports "cannot read media or unsupported
disc format". Here's the plot...


WinXP with Yamaha 8424S (SCSI) CD writer. Used XP to create data a CD. I've
done this many times before successfully but now the write process goes
fine, but the CD is not readable in any other machine. Eventually got
frustrated with XP so tried a freeware application CDBurnerXP Pro (?). That
produced the same effect, so began to suspect the hardware. (I'd already
updated to the latest drivers for the Yamaha).

Moved the content to my Dell laptop with a CD-RW/DVD drive. Can't recall the
CDR drive manufacturer, but this kit is just 6 months old so it should be
"current technology". (ish). Created CD-R using XP on the laptop. More
coasters. Tried CDBurnerXP-Pro on the laptop. Another coaster.

So I've tried different software and hardware combinations, the only thing
in common is the media, or the content. CD-Rs are Eltec from Staples IIRC,
about a year old and reliable so far. I'm struggling to believe the content
can have any bearing BUT, I've analysed a few of the coasters and they are
all ok until about the same point. I'm trying to save about 120 4-5Mb jpgs
and an excel spreadsheet. All the jpgs are in a single folder at the root
level, and the spreadsheet is at the root level too. I seem to be able to
read about 100-103 of the jpgs before getting media errors. Both XP and
CDBurnerXP-Pro claim my files will need 580Mb of CD space, and the Eltecs
claim to be 700Mb so I don't think I'm even close to exceeding the capacity.

I downloaded an analyser from Infinadyne, which looked at one of my coasters
and said this...

------------------------------------------
The following information was collected by CD/DVD Diagnostic
Copyright 1997-2004, InfinaDyne

Table of Contents
There are a total of 1 tracks on disc, plus the lead-out.
Disc manufacturer: Plasmon Data systems Ltd. Type: Phthalocyanine
(gold)
Track 1 occupies 297954 blocks (66 Min, 12 Sec, 54 Frames).
This track contains data in ISO-9660 format and also contains
Joliet format directory information.
Lead-out track starts at block 297954.
---------------------------------------------
Data track 1 recorded as part of session 1.
Volume create date 27/11/2004 16:39:49
Both the publisher and data preparer fields are blank. This should have
somebody's name in it.
This track has an application identifier of "CDBURNERXP PRO 3".
There are 123 accessible files and 1 directories contained in this track.
The post-gap for this disc is either missing or invalid. 19 trailing blocks
found.
---------------------------------------------
There are one or more conditions that make replication of this disc
questionable.


Cut to the question... does anyone recognise my symptoms, or is there
anything obviously wrong that can be deduced from the above report? My faith
in cd writing has plummeted. I'm just off to try and read back all the
critical CDs I've cut over the last two years.

Walter

[Mike Richter]

Walter Wright wrote:
WinXP with Yamaha 8424S (SCSI) CD writer. Used XP to create data a CD. I've done this many times before successfully but now the write process goes fine, but the CD is not readable in any other machine. Eventually got frustrated with XP so tried a freeware application CDBurnerXP Pro (?). That produced the same effect, so began to suspect the hardware. (I'd already updated to the latest drivers for the Yamaha).
Cut to the question... does anyone recognise my symptoms, or is there anything obviously wrong that can be deduced from the above report? My faith in cd writing has plummeted. I'm just off to try and read back all the critical CDs I've cut over the last two years.

I read it all before snipping. There's nothing there to indicate a
problem - except the obvious fact that you're not getting the result. It
may well be the medium - especially with such a BrandX. Even if the last
twelve packs worked just fine, this one could be 'bad' - i.e., from
another vendor and not compatible with your writer and speed. One
possibility is that the optimum for those blanks is appreciably higher
than your drive can write.

The Infinadyne results say that the header and track information is
correct. The 'complaints' are quibbles characteristic of any home-made
disc. I don't know the demo's capabilities, but if you can check the
error rate it would be helpful. Failing that, use CDSpeed (from them or
from Ahead) to see whether you have a high error rate and one that
increases as you write more files.

120 files, even if they were in the root, would be acceptable. They're
not so many that you should have problems from too many little files and
otherwise everything seems fine - except the result. I don't know the
software you're using, so can't guess whether some useful error message
slipped past you.

Conclusion: try again with slower/better (branded) media if you can find
them. If that doesn't do it, I'm stumped.

Mike
--
mrichter@cpl.net
http://www.mrichter.com/

[smh]

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------

Walter Wright wrote: Having now converted about a dozen CD-Rs into coasters, I've started seeking help. I've cChecked Google, the CDR-FAQ and a couple of utilities I found on the net, but still no success. XP reports "cannot read media or unsupported disc format". Here's the plot... WinXP with Yamaha 8424S (SCSI) CD writer. Used XP to create data a CD. I've done this many times before successfully but now the write process goes fine, but the CD is not readable in any other machine. Eventually got frustrated with XP so tried a freeware application CDBurnerXP Pro (?). That produced the same effect, so began to suspect the hardware. (I'd already updated to the latest drivers for the Yamaha). Moved the content to my Dell laptop with a CD-RW/DVD drive. Can't recall the CDR drive manufacturer, but this kit is just 6 months old

Yamaha 8424S is several YEARS old.
so it should be "current technology". (ish). Created CD-R using XP on the laptop. More coasters. Tried CDBurnerXP-Pro on the laptop. Another coaster. So I've tried different software and hardware combinations, the only thing in common is the media, or the content. CD-Rs are Eltec from Staples IIRC, about a year old and reliable so far.

If the laptop burner is not the Yamaha, then the media you are using are
bad.
I'm struggling to believe the content can have any bearing BUT, I've analysed a few of the coasters and they are all ok until about the same point. I'm trying to save about 120 4-5Mb jpgs and an excel spreadsheet. All the jpgs are in a single folder at the root level, and the spreadsheet is at the root level too. I seem to be able to read about 100-103 of the jpgs before getting media errors.

If these cd's are made by the Yamaha, try clean and lube the rails the
laser assembly riding on.
Both XP and CDBurnerXP-Pro claim my files will need 580Mb of CD space, and the Eltecs claim to be 700Mb so I don't think I'm even close to exceeding the capacity. I downloaded an analyser from Infinadyne, which looked at one of my coasters and said this...

Try CD Speed, Extra, ScanDisc:
http://www.cdspeed2000.com/
Cut to the question... does anyone recognise my symptoms, or is there anything obviously wrong that can be deduced from the above report? My faith in cd writing has plummeted. I'm just off to try and read back all the critical CDs I've cut over the last two years.

Check them out with the above CD Speed.


========================================================
Who Is Mike Richter and
Why Are They Saying All These Horrible Things About Him?
========================================================
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3F2D8973.EBCD8386@mindspring.com

Mike Richter is a LIAR (wife beating)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (critical bugs)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (major bug)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (nda limit)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (nda)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (no secret)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (no secret)(ii)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (dae)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (enhanced-cd)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (no enhanced cd)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (enhanced-cd/cdr-faq)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (cd-extra/cd-text)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (cd-extra/sao/tao)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (cd-extra/single-session)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/winme)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/winme)(ii)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(ii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(iii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(iv)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/plextor)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(ii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(iii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(iv)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(v)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(vi)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(vii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(8a)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(9a)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (ii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (iii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (iv)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (v)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (vi)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (vii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (viii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (ix)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (x)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (xi)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (xii)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (supplied cd)

What's wrong with Mike Richter (Tim Kroesen) (i)
What's wrong with Mike Richter (Tim Kroesen) (ii)

Mike Richter Wow! Wow! Wow!

Mike Richter's Exquisite Sense of Time (i)
Mike Richter's Exquisite Sense of Time (ii)
Mike Richter's Exquisite Sense of Time (iii)

Mike Richter & "Looooooooonng" Time for Nothing

What an Asshole

[Walter Wright]

"Mike Richter" <mrichter@cpl.net> wrote in message
news:311buqF366u6bU1@uni-berlin.de...
I read it all before snipping. There's nothing there to indicate a problem - except the obvious fact that you're not getting the result. It may well be the medium - especially with such a BrandX. Even if the last twelve packs worked just fine, this one could be 'bad' - i.e., from another vendor and not compatible with your writer and speed. One possibility is that the optimum for those blanks is appreciably higher than your drive can write.

This was the first (and last!) pack of Emtec disks I ever bought. Got them
from Staples ISTR.

Conclusion: try again with slower/better (branded) media if you can find them. If that doesn't do it, I'm stumped.

Will do. Is any particular brand recognised as more reliable than others?
All I want to do is write a bunch of jpg images to a CD-R, in one session
with no intention of updating them. The intention is to preserve the images
for 10-20+ years. They are actually scanned photographic slides, and the
slides are starting to fade/disintegrate. I was hoping for some element of
permanence by scanning them to CD-R, but now I feel the CDs are even more
flakey than the slides ;-)

Walter

[Walter Wright]

"smh" <smhong@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:41ABB937.1C58CD61@mindspring.com... Yamaha 8424S is several YEARS old.

I think I bought it 3 years ago. It will write CD-R at 8x and seems to work
well with CD-RW too.
Try CD Speed, Extra, ScanDisc: http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

Thanks for that tip. It's been quite an eye-opener. I ScanDisc'd 5 or 6 of
the disks I produced over the last 2-3 years. They all seem similar in that
the first 25-30% of the disk is perfect (green dots), then there's a band of
yellow/green, but still readable, then another wide track of green, then
right up near the end of the disk it goes strong yellow again, and suddenly
its all red and unreadable. I'm becoming convinced its a shoddy batch of
media. Would it be expected/normal for a scandisk to be made up of entirely
green dots?

Great tool though.

Walter

[smh]

.. --------------------------------------
Mike Richter, were you born with
"Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
--------------------------------------

Walter Wright wrote: "smh" wrote: Yamaha 8424S is several YEARS old. I think I bought it 3 years ago. It will write CD-R at 8x and seems to work well with CD-RW too. Try CD Speed, Extra, ScanDisc: http://www.cdspeed2000.com/ Thanks for that tip. It's been quite an eye-opener. I ScanDisc'd 5 or 6 of the disks I produced over the last 2-3 years. They all seem similar in that the first 25-30% of the disk is perfect (green dots), then there's a band of yellow/green, but still readable, then another wide track of green, then right up near the end of the disk it goes strong yellow again, and suddenly its all red and unreadable. I'm becoming convinced its a shoddy batch of media. Would it be expected/normal for a scandisk to be made up of entirely green dots? Great tool though.

Normal burn should be all green. Your case may be caused by combination
of the Yamaha needing cleaning and not so good quality cd. Taiyo Yuden
and Mitsui silver are supposed to be good brands.

[7-5] How long do CD-Rs and CD-RWs last?
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-5


========================================================
Who Is Mike Richter and
Why Are They Saying All These Horrible Things About Him?
========================================================

(No Pipsqueaks have been able to prove ANY of the following is a LIBEL)
( -- despite Mikey claimed to have proof of misquotes !! )

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3F2D8973.EBCD8386@mindspring.com

Mike Richter is a LIAR (wife beating)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (critical bugs)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (major bug)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (nda limit)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (nda)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (no secret)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (no secret)(ii)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (dae)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (enhanced-cd)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (no enhanced cd)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (enhanced-cd/cdr-faq)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (cd-extra/cd-text)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (cd-extra/sao/tao)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (cd-extra/single-session)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/winme)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/winme)(ii)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(ii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(iii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/win2k)(iv)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (aspi/plextor)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(ii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(iii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(iv)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(v)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(vi)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(vii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(8a)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/eject)(9a)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (i)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (ii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (iii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (iv)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (v)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (vi)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (vii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (viii)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (ix)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (x)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (xi)
Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (xii)

Mike Richter is a LIAR (supplied cd)

What's wrong with Mike Richter (Tim Kroesen) (i)
What's wrong with Mike Richter (Tim Kroesen) (ii)

Mike Richter Wow! Wow! Wow!

Mike Richter's Exquisite Sense of Time (i)
Mike Richter's Exquisite Sense of Time (ii)
Mike Richter's Exquisite Sense of Time (iii)

Mike Richter & "Looooooooonng" Time for Nothing

What an Asshole

[James Perrett]

Walter Wright wrote:
This was the first (and last!) pack of Emtec disks I ever bought. Got them from Staples ISTR.

Emtec (formerly BASF) never made their own discs. They started off
rebranding decent quality discs like Kodak but their later discs were
cheap CMC's which deteriorate quickly if not stored in ideal conditions.

Cheers.

James.

[Mike Richter]

Walter Wright wrote:
This was the first (and last!) pack of Emtec disks I ever bought. Got them from Staples ISTR.Conclusion: try again with slower/better (branded) media if you can findthem. If that doesn't do it, I'm stumped. Will do. Is any particular brand recognised as more reliable than others?

Consensus remains with Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui as the highest quality
brands, but they're not easy to find and tend to be expensive. TDK is
still highly regarded. Once you know you can write high-quality discs
reliably, you can experiment with more accessible media at lower prices,
using the rejects for non-critical projects.

Mike
--
mrichter@cpl.net
http://www.mrichter.com/

[Walter Wright]

"Mike Richter" <mrichter@cpl.net> wrote in message
news:316mmiF38bemaU2@individual.net...
Consensus remains with Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui as the highest quality brands, but they're not easy to find and tend to be expensive. TDK is still highly regarded. Once you know you can write high-quality discs reliably, you can experiment with more accessible media at lower prices, using the rejects for non-critical projects.

Thanks Mike. Time to go shopping. Don't know what the chances are of finding
the first two brands here in the UK, but TDK should be easy to source. This
has been an "interesting" learning experience. My only regret is not going
through this 3 years ago.

Walter

[James Perrett]

Walter Wright wrote: "Mike Richter" <mrichter@cpl.net> wrote in message news:316mmiF38bemaU2@individual.net... Consensus remains with Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui as the highest quality brands, but they're not easy to find and tend to be expensive. TDK is still highly regarded. Once you know you can write high-quality discs reliably, you can experiment with more accessible media at lower prices, using the rejects for non-critical projects. Thanks Mike. Time to go shopping. Don't know what the chances are of finding the first two brands here in the UK, but TDK should be easy to source. This has been an "interesting" learning experience. My only regret is not going through this 3 years ago. Walter

In the UK Ebuyer sell Plextor branded Taiyo Yuden discs at reasonable
prices. You can also buy them from various other online retailers in
bulk packs. Mitsui discs are sold under the HHB name in some of the
better music shops and pro-audio shops but I'm still not convinced that
current Mitsui discs are as good as they used to be.

Verbatim is another brand that I'd recommend but go for the Datalife
Plus discs rather than the plain Datalife discs. You should be able to
find Verbatim discs in PC World.

I'm not a fan of the cheap TDK discs but their more expensive discs
should be OK.

With all of these brands you'll be better off if they say Made in Japan
somewhere on the packaging.

Cheers.

James.

In article <41AF1B27.35B27492@soc.soton.ac.uk>,
James Perrett <James.R.Perrett@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote:Walter Wright wrote: "Mike Richter" <mrichter@cpl.net> wrote in message news:316mmiF38bemaU2@individual.net... Consensus remains with Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui as the highest quality brands, but they're not easy to find and tend to be expensive. TDK is still highly regarded. Once you know you can write high-quality discs reliably, you can experiment with more accessible media at lower prices, using the rejects for non-critical projects. Thanks Mike. Time to go shopping. Don't know what the chances are of finding the first two brands here in the UK, but TDK should be easy to source. This has been an "interesting" learning experience. My only regret is not going through this 3 years ago. WalterIn the UK Ebuyer sell Plextor branded Taiyo Yuden discs at reasonableprices. You can also buy them from various other online retailers inbulk packs. Mitsui discs are sold under the HHB name in some of thebetter music shops and pro-audio shops but I'm still not convinced thatcurrent Mitsui discs are as good as they used to be.Verbatim is another brand that I'd recommend but go for the DatalifePlus discs rather than the plain Datalife discs. You should be able tofind Verbatim discs in PC World.I'm not a fan of the cheap TDK discs but their more expensive discsshould be OK.With all of these brands you'll be better off if they say Made in Japansomewhere on the packaging.Cheers.James.


Fuji Film blanks used to be TY's, but no more. Funny thing is that when
you buy Fuji film processing, the CD that comes back is TY.

-tc

In article <41AF1B27.35B27492@soc.soton.ac.uk>,
James Perrett <James.R.Perrett@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote:Walter Wright wrote: "Mike Richter" <mrichter@cpl.net> wrote in message news:316mmiF38bemaU2@individual.net... Consensus remains with Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui as the highest quality brands, but they're not easy to find and tend to be expensive. TDK is still highly regarded. Once you know you can write high-quality discs reliably, you can experiment with more accessible media at lower prices, using the rejects for non-critical projects. Thanks Mike. Time to go shopping. Don't know what the chances are of finding the first two brands here in the UK, but TDK should be easy to source. This has been an "interesting" learning experience. My only regret is not going through this 3 years ago. WalterIn the UK Ebuyer sell Plextor branded Taiyo Yuden discs at reasonableprices. You can also buy them from various other online retailers inbulk packs. Mitsui discs are sold under the HHB name in some of thebetter music shops and pro-audio shops but I'm still not convinced thatcurrent Mitsui discs are as good as they used to be.Verbatim is another brand that I'd recommend but go for the DatalifePlus discs rather than the plain Datalife discs. You should be able tofind Verbatim discs in PC World.I'm not a fan of the cheap TDK discs but their more expensive discsshould be OK.With all of these brands you'll be better off if they say Made in Japansomewhere on the packaging.Cheers.James.


Fuji Film blanks used to be TY's, but no more. Funny thing is that when
you buy Fuji film processing, the CD that comes back is TY.

I have recently purchased Sony oem (unmarked) blanks that were TY.

-tc