wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work).

[H Brett Bolen]

My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normally
works fine.

However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplug
it, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up.

Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)?

I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors.

Thanks
b²

[Chris Stolworthy]

My first guess would be to check the BIOS for an option that sounds like
"After power loss..." Alot of boards have an option in the BIOS that keeps
them from powering on automatically after power loss, i.e. power surge,
power plug removed then plugged back in.

Thats my best guess
-Chris

[daytripper]

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com>
wrote:
My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normallyworks fine.However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplugit, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up.Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)?I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors.

Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to
work - because:

- WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state,
- and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive.
- When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost
- and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby"
state
- hence there will be no WOL function available...

/daytripper

[V W Wall]

daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com> wrote:My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normallyworks fine.However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplugit, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up.Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)?I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors. Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to work - because: - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state, - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive. - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby" state - hence there will be no WOL function available...

WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say is
true for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is still
active. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply when
mains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS can
then respond to a WOL request.

Virg Wall
--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)

[daytripper]

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:
daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com> wrote:My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normallyworks fine.However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplugit, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up.Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)?I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors. Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to work - because: - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state, - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive. - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby" state - hence there will be no WOL function available...WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say istrue for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is stillactive. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply whenmains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS canthen respond to a WOL request.Virg Wall

No, that won't give you WOL. The bios switch you're referring to cannot return
the system to the *Standby* state, so there's no way WOL will function.

In addition to the requirement I provided, I left out at least one other
critical need for WOL to function. Think about how WOL works and you should
quickly arrive at the correct conclusion...

/daytripper (hint: the bios has nothing to do with it...)

[V W Wall]

daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com> wrote: >My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normally >works fine. > >However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplug >it, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up. > >Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)? > >I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors. Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to work - because: - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state, - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive. - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby" state - hence there will be no WOL function available...WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say istrue for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is stillactive. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply whenmains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS canthen respond to a WOL request.Virg Wall No, that won't give you WOL. The bios switch you're referring to cannot return the system to the *Standby* state, so there's no way WOL will function.

It doesn't need WOL--the system is fully up. You can set the power management
to go to "Standby" if you wish to wait for a WOL. Of course the NIC, or
whatever
is connected to the LAN must be active. In addition to the requirement I provided, I left out at least one other critical need for WOL to function. Think about how WOL works and you should quickly arrive at the correct conclusion... /daytripper (hint: the bios has nothing to do with it...)


--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)

[daytripper]

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:21:38 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:
daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:daytripper wrote:>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com>> wrote:>> >My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normally> >works fine.> >> >However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplug> >it, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up.> >> >Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)?> >> >I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors.>> Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to> work - because:>> - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state,> - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive.> - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost> - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby"> state> - hence there will be no WOL function available...WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say istrue for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is stillactive. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply whenmains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS canthen respond to a WOL request.Virg Wall No, that won't give you WOL. The bios switch you're referring to cannot return the system to the *Standby* state, so there's no way WOL will function.It doesn't need WOL--the system is fully up.

And that's *not* WOL, which was the whole point of the thread, eh?

That's simply "Power Up after AC loss", already noted...

/daytripper

[V W Wall]

daytripper wrote: On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:21:38 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote: >daytripper wrote: >> >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com> >> wrote: >> >> >My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normally >> >works fine. >> > >> >However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplug >> >it, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up. >> > >> >Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)? >> > >> >I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors. >> >> Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to >> work - because: >> >> - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state, >> - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive. >> - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost >> - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby" >> state >> - hence there will be no WOL function available... > >WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say is >true for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is still >active. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply when >mains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS can >then respond to a WOL request. > >Virg Wall No, that won't give you WOL. The bios switch you're referring to cannot return the system to the *Standby* state, so there's no way WOL will function.It doesn't need WOL--the system is fully up. And that's *not* WOL, which was the whole point of the thread, eh?

You left out this part of my answer:

"You can set the power management
to go to "Standby" if you wish to wait for a WOL." That's simply "Power Up after AC loss", already noted... /daytripper

Virg Wall

[crom]

Hi
I'm using WakeOnLAN and I've some questions.
I would like to know :

- When you enable WakeOnLAN in the Windows driver. Where is saved this
parameter ? In ACPI Tables ? In Windows Registry ? In a Network Card Memory
?

- At shutdown, the NIC puts into a WakeOnLAN mode ? or just in a certain
electrical state which allows WakeOnLAN ?

- If I understand what you say first, after a powerfailure, when electricty
comes again, the PC isn't in Standby state. But is the WakeOnLAN enabled at
this moment ?

Excuse me for my english...
Thanks

[H Brett Bolen]

daytripper wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:
In addition to the requirement I provided, I left out at least one other critical need for WOL to function. Think about how WOL works and you should quickly arrive at the correct conclusion...
/daytripper (hint: the bios has nothing to do with it...)

ok I'll bite.

what? ( another pc, power, ethernet)

[daytripper]

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 06:01:22 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:
daytripper wrote: On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:21:38 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:daytripper wrote:>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:>> >daytripper wrote:> >>> >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com>> >> wrote:> >>> >> >My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normally> >> >works fine.> >> >> >> >However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplug> >> >it, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up.> >> >> >> >Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)?> >> >> >> >I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors.> >>> >> Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to> >> work - because:> >>> >> - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state,> >> - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive.> >> - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost> >> - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby"> >> state> >> - hence there will be no WOL function available...> >> >WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say is> >true for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is still> >active. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply when> >mains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS can> >then respond to a WOL request.> >> >Virg Wall>> No, that won't give you WOL. The bios switch you're referring to cannot return> the system to the *Standby* state, so there's no way WOL will function.It doesn't need WOL--the system is fully up. And that's *not* WOL, which was the whole point of the thread, eh?You left out this part of my answer:"You can set the power managementto go to "Standby" if you wish to wait for a WOL." That's simply "Power Up after AC loss", already noted... /daytripperVirg Wall

Sorry - the generic use of "power management" so close to a bios discussion
left me at the bios level, not the os.

Ok, so to review, if the OP sets the bios to enable "Power Up after AC loss",
has it automatically boot the OS, has the nic driver configured to enable WOL,
and has the OS power management configured to always go to Standby after N
minutes, then yeah, that'd work, because you're NOT trying to do the
impossible of getting from a full power down state to "WOL-ready".

You'd sure want N to be fairly large though...which might reduce the
practicality of such a work-around...

/daytripper

[daytripper]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:06:18 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote:
HiI'm using WakeOnLAN and I've some questions.I would like to know :- When you enable WakeOnLAN in the Windows driver. Where is saved thisparameter ? In ACPI Tables ? In Windows Registry ? In a Network Card Memory?

The important thing is the driver then configures the nic adapter and
typically a supporting logic element (usually the SIO as most designs utilize
generic SIO GPIO pins to support WOL) that will recognize the "wake me now"
signal from the NIC and in turn signal the system power control logic to tell
the main power supply to fully turn on.
- At shutdown, the NIC puts into a WakeOnLAN mode ? or just in a certainelectrical state which allows WakeOnLAN ?

Careful, if you're using "shutdown" to indicate "standby". These are
significant, contrary terms. There is no return to "awake" from "shutdown",
only from "standby".

If you meant "standby", the important bits are noted above.
- If I understand what you say first, after a powerfailure, when electrictycomes again, the PC isn't in Standby state. But is the WakeOnLAN enabled atthis moment ?

If the PC wasn't steadily maintained in the Standby state, WOL is not
possible. You cannot transition from the "shutdown" state to the "standby"
state. You can only WOL from "standby".

The same NIC and SIO settings that I listed earlier depend on maintaining the
"standby" aka "housekeeping" power to these elements to retain the settings.
When the system is put into the "standby" state, "standby" power is always
available as long as mains (AC) power is connected to the supply.

But if the AC disappears, the "standby" power disappears, and these dynamic
settings are lost, so WOL is not possible.
Excuse me for my english...Thanks

You're English is just fine. Whatever your native language I can assure you I
would be pitifully bad at it compared to your mastery of English ;-)

cheers

/daytripper

[daytripper]

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:04:29 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com>
wrote:
daytripper wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote: In addition to the requirement I provided, I left out at least one other critical need for WOL to function. Think about how WOL works and you should quickly arrive at the correct conclusion... /daytripper (hint: the bios has nothing to do with it...)ok I'll bite.what? ( another pc, power, ethernet)

Ah - you slipped me a back-channel mail message copy of this, to which I
replied earlier. It contained the same comments I just provided on-group.

That'll teach me...

/daytripper

[V W Wall]

daytripper wrote: On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 06:01:22 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:daytripper wrote: On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:21:38 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote: >daytripper wrote: >> >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:12:05 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote: >> >> >daytripper wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:34:35 GMT, H Brett Bolen <wingedlizard@nc.rr.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >My motherboard ( supermicro x5dal-g) has wake on lan which normally >> >> >works fine. >> >> > >> >> >However if power is removed ( ie I shutdown normally, unplug >> >> >it, then plug it back in ), the machine does not wake up. >> >> > >> >> >Has anybody had a problem with this ( or got it to work)? >> >> > >> >> >I suspect that it is not a problem with other adaptors. >> >> >> >> Nobody with a properly designed motherboard will get the above scenario to >> >> work - because: >> >> >> >> - WOL "wakes" only from the "Standby" state, >> >> - and the "Standby" state depends on memory data being kept alive. >> >> - When you lose the mains power to the system, the memory data is lost >> >> - and the system power controller recognizes it is no longer in the "Standby" >> >> state >> >> - hence there will be no WOL function available... >> > >> >WOL and "boot on power restore" are two different things. What you say is >> >true for WOL, but with power removed, the real time clock in the BIOS is still >> >active. All that is needed, is a circuit to turn on the power supply when >> >mains power is restored. Some BIOSs do have this circuit. The BIOS can >> >then respond to a WOL request. >> > >> >Virg Wall >> >> No, that won't give you WOL. The bios switch you're referring to cannot return >> the system to the *Standby* state, so there's no way WOL will function. > >It doesn't need WOL--the system is fully up. And that's *not* WOL, which was the whole point of the thread, eh?You left out this part of my answer:"You can set the power managementto go to "Standby" if you wish to wait for a WOL." That's simply "Power Up after AC loss", already noted... /daytripperVirg Wall Sorry - the generic use of "power management" so close to a bios discussion left me at the bios level, not the os.

There are some BIOS power management schemes. I think an OS scheme would
be better for the reasons you mention. Ok, so to review, if the OP sets the bios to enable "Power Up after AC loss", has it automatically boot the OS, has the nic driver configured to enable WOL, and has the OS power management configured to always go to Standby after N minutes, then yeah, that'd work, because you're NOT trying to do the impossible of getting from a full power down state to "WOL-ready". You'd sure want N to be fairly large though...which might reduce the practicality of such a work-around...

You'd need to see when the power management was loaded. If it were after
all the other drivers were set up, N could be very small. You'd have to
be sure the NIC driver and the program to accept the WOL "magic packet"
were up and running.

Even with a BIOS without "boot on power return", a handful of Radio Shack
parts will "push the button" on a return of power. All sorts of schemes
could be implemented, based on the fact that power return will provide
+5V SB from the PS, and that the BIOS boot routine is in ROM or CMOS.

Virg Wall

[daytripper]

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:14:43 GMT, V W Wall <vwall@DEADearthlink.net> wrote:
daytripper wrote: Sorry - the generic use of "power management" so close to a bios discussion left me at the bios level, not the os.There are some BIOS power management schemes. I think an OS scheme wouldbe better for the reasons you mention.

Perhaps with embedded nics, bios could be aware enough, but not for much
longer. What "bios" is left after the Next Big Thing is foisted upon the world
will be even less capable post code and then a quick jump to the boot block.
Leave everything else up to Redmund....
Ok, so to review, if the OP sets the bios to enable "Power Up after AC loss", has it automatically boot the OS, has the nic driver configured to enable WOL, and has the OS power management configured to always go to Standby after N minutes, then yeah, that'd work, because you're NOT trying to do the impossible of getting from a full power down state to "WOL-ready". You'd sure want N to be fairly large though...which might reduce the practicality of such a work-around...You'd need to see when the power management was loaded. If it were afterall the other drivers were set up, N could be very small. You'd have tobe sure the NIC driver and the program to accept the WOL "magic packet"were up and running.

I was thinking if N was small the poor bastard who has to actually use that
machine on prime shift would have to hover over the keyboard to keep the
damned thing awake.
Even with a BIOS without "boot on power return", a handful of Radio Shackparts will "push the button" on a return of power. All sorts of schemescould be implemented, based on the fact that power return will provide+5V SB from the PS, and that the BIOS boot routine is in ROM or CMOS.

Context is everything, and unless the OP expresses the desire and the ability
to cobble his/her hardware such notions are going to remain unsaid ;-)
Even so, the utility of having a system in some weird "warm but dumb" state
where a full OS load is required upon fully awakening to do anything useful
kinda escapes me...

For servers, by the way, we solve this with much more sophistication (read:
more hardware and firmware) as we in addition to such mundanities as WOL, we
have to allow a remote controlled full power-down, full power-up, reset, and
so on, and be able to remotely see what you would see on a local monitor
during post.

This capability is sold as an option specifically for lights-out sites. The
option cost is more than an entry level pc ;-)

/daytripper (there is money to be made selling convenience)

[crom]

Thanks daytripper
I can now begin my report.
I have to make an etude of WakeOnLAN for my studies.

[crom]

> But if the AC disappears, the "standby" power disappears, and these
dynamic settings are lost, so WOL is not possible.

When electricty comes again, and you put the machine in standby mode again
(without loading OS, just from BIOS loading), "The same NIC and SIO
settings" are so lost by Power Failure, nevertheless why we can use
WakeOnLAN ?
This shows that these parameters are saved somewhere, no ?

It's the last question ;)

[John]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:37:05 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote:
But if the AC disappears, the "standby" power disappears, and thesedynamic settings are lost, so WOL is not possible.When electricty comes again, and you put the machine in standby mode again(without loading OS, just from BIOS loading), "The same NIC and SIOsettings" are so lost by Power Failure, nevertheless why we can useWakeOnLAN ?This shows that these parameters are saved somewhere, no ?It's the last question ;)

Possibly it's a regiser set in the NIC, that is loaded by BIOS or OS
driver initialization, and once loaded, is preserved by 5VSB, but due
to complete power failure 5VSB is of course gone too, so NIC reverts
to defaults again, the process repeats.

[daytripper]

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:02:35 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:37:05 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote: But if the AC disappears, the "standby" power disappears, and thesedynamic settings are lost, so WOL is not possible.When electricty comes again, and you put the machine in standby mode again(without loading OS, just from BIOS loading), "The same NIC and SIOsettings" are so lost by Power Failure, nevertheless why we can useWakeOnLAN ?This shows that these parameters are saved somewhere, no ?It's the last question ;)Possibly it's a regiser set in the NIC, that is loaded by BIOS or OSdriver initialization, and once loaded, is preserved by 5VSB, but dueto complete power failure 5VSB is of course gone too, so NIC revertsto defaults again, the process repeats.

You are on the right track (I'm getting through! ;-)

But as I mentioned there's more than just the NIC, there is the on-board WOL
support that has to be set and only remains set while the SB voltages are
present. This support has traditionally been implemented using SIO ("Super IO"
chip) GPIO pins within a special section of the SIO that is kept "alive" with
the same SB power.

Lose the SB power = lose these settings = no WOL is possible...

/daytripper

[daytripper]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:37:05 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote:
But if the AC disappears, the "standby" power disappears, and these dynamic settings are lost, so WOL is not possible.When electricty comes again, and you put the machine in standby mode again(without loading OS, just from BIOS loading), "The same NIC and SIOsettings" are so lost by Power Failure, nevertheless why we can useWakeOnLAN ?This shows that these parameters are saved somewhere, no ?It's the last question ;)

You cannot "put the machine in standby mode again without loading the OS".
Period.

After a mains power failure, you *can* reapply "standby power" to the system,
but it isn't in WOL mode any longer. Yes, because the "parameters are saved
somewhere" in the nic and motherboard WOL logic and are only preserved while
"standby power" is constantly maintained, as I explained...

/daytripper (hope I get a good grade ;-)

[crom]

I thank you for all these answers

Without you, I would be still posed many questions in my head ;)

[crom]

After a power failure, i start the machine and stop it 2 secondes after (no
Windows loading), the WakeOnLAN is active.

[daytripper]

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:55:49 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote:
After a power failure, i start the machine and stop it 2 secondes after (noWindows loading), the WakeOnLAN is active.

How do you "stop" the system?
How do you know WOL is active? And what did it wake up to?

/daytripper

[test]

I stop the system with the power switch button.
I know WOL is active because I can wake the system from a sended Magic
Packet on this machine.

"daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:1lkuvvsj5rl6bgq06rje3ksru60clhsiu8@4ax.com... On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:55:49 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote:After a power failure, i start the machine and stop it 2 secondes after
(noWindows loading), the WakeOnLAN is active. How do you "stop" the system? How do you know WOL is active? And what did it wake up to? /daytripper

[daytripper]

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:54:21 +0100, "test" <damienb@libertysurf.fr> wrote:"daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> a écrit dans le message denews:1lkuvvsj5rl6bgq06rje3ksru60clhsiu8@4ax.com... On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:55:49 +0100, "test" <test@test.com> wrote:After a power failure, i start the machine and stop it 2 secondes after(noWindows loading), the WakeOnLAN is active. How do you "stop" the system? How do you know WOL is active? And what did it wake up to? /daytripperI stop the system with the power switch button.I know WOL is active because I can wake the system from a sended MagicPacket on this machine.

Did you press the power button absolutely *before* the system started loading
the OS? Or had it already started loading but just hadn't gotten to the
log-in screen?

/daytripper

[test]

Not, just before the BIOS loading page : CPU, memory, HDD...

[daytripper]

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:40:43 +0100, "test" <damienb@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
Not, just before the BIOS loading page : CPU, memory, HDD...

That's certainly a curiosity. Including laptops I have seven systems here,
comprised of five different designs and none of them are able to do the same,
even with bios loaded and looking for a boot block.

Do you know who made the motherboard for your system, and roughly when it was
manufactured?

[test]

I think it was an ABIT VH6.
I have two systems with the same motherboard and it results the same thing.

Next monday, I will test on a Dell GX270 machine, but I don't know what is
the installed motherboard.
I will tell you.

[V W Wall]

daytripper wrote: On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:40:43 +0100, "test" <damienb@libertysurf.fr> wrote:Not, just before the BIOS loading page : CPU, memory, HDD... That's certainly a curiosity. Including laptops I have seven systems here, comprised of five different designs and none of them are able to do the same, even with bios loaded and looking for a boot block. Do you know who made the motherboard for your system, and roughly when it was manufactured?

Could it be that the NIC and/or whatever holds the "macic packet" has memory
retained as long as +5V SB is supplied. Holding the power button in is not
the same as removing AC line power. This just allows the PS-ON line, (pin14),
to go low, turning off the main PS.

Just a thought.

Virg Wall
--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)

[H Brett Bolen]

V W Wall wrote: daytripper wrote:On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:40:43 +0100, "test" <damienb@libertysurf.fr> wrote:Do you know who made the motherboard for your system, and roughly when it wasmanufactured? Could it be that the NIC and/or whatever holds the "macic packet" has memory retained as long as +5V SB is supplied. Holding the power button in is not the same as removing AC line power. This just allows the PS-ON line, (pin14), to go low, turning off the main PS.

As long as the magic packet is received afer power is re-applied,
I'd be happy. This is not the case for my hardware.

I am the origional poster, and my hardware is supermicro X5DAL-G,
with motherboard intel e1000 ethernet.

Tech support worked with me and in the end, they determined that
it is not supported (wakeup after power loss) on this motherboard.
They kept pushing the 'resume after power loss' which as been
pointed out, is quite different.

I believe it is possible if the hardware were designed this way, and
I would be interested in knowing what mobo/ethernet card will
support this. all that would be needed ( in my mind), is a
default state of '+5v SB' to be on, and an ethernet card
that default power on state to be 'WOL on Magic Packet'. Or
maybe there is such a thing as line powered ethernet.

BTW, WOL WakeUp doesn't 'Resume' for me, it does a complete 'Power
On Self Test' ( So memory, usb, kbd, other peripherals don't need
power -- the power supply only needs to look for changes to
the WOL_Detect jumper [ or equivalent with mobo ethernet]).

b²

[John]

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:26:12 GMT, H Brett Bolen
<wingedlizard@nc.rr.com> wrote:

As long as the magic packet is received afer power is re-applied,I'd be happy. This is not the case for my hardware.I am the origional poster, and my hardware is supermicro X5DAL-G,with motherboard intel e1000 ethernet.Tech support worked with me and in the end, they determined thatit is not supported (wakeup after power loss) on this motherboard.They kept pushing the 'resume after power loss' which as beenpointed out, is quite different.I believe it is possible if the hardware were designed this way, andI would be interested in knowing what mobo/ethernet card willsupport this. all that would be needed ( in my mind), is adefault state of '+5v SB' to be on, and an ethernet cardthat default power on state to be 'WOL on Magic Packet'. Ormaybe there is such a thing as line powered ethernet.BTW, WOL WakeUp doesn't 'Resume' for me, it does a complete 'PowerOn Self Test' ( So memory, usb, kbd, other peripherals don't needpower -- the power supply only needs to look for changes tothe WOL_Detect jumper [ or equivalent with mobo ethernet]).b²

I'm wondering if a different type of solution might work for you,
simply using an UPS. If power is off for too long to make a larger
UPS cost-effective, perhaps using software bundled with some to
logically power-off (for example the shut-down common in Windows) so
the power supply is still getting the AC input voltage to preserve
5VSB output to motherboard, just draining the UPS very slowly since
it's only powering a dozen or less watts for 5VSB (or 3VSB if the
power supply supports both).

However I'm not certain that all UPS will remain "on", after they shut
down the system... if one that stays on cannot be found perhaps
dedicating the UPS to a separate, dedicated 5V ~2A power supply
substituting for the original power supply's 5VSB rail.

[crom]

On the Dell GX270 Machine.
After a Power Failure, when the electricity comes again, I can see the Power
light is On during one second. So, I test the WakeOnLAN is active ? Yes, i
can wake up the machine without rebooting the machine after a power failure.
So with all this tests, i don't know how to think.

I've read the www.acpi.info PDF document and I must know how it really
works...

[crom]

Another test

I have two machines.

1st Machine :
NIC - WakeOnLAN ON (1)

2nd Machine :
NIC - WakeOnLAN OFF (2)

I put the NIC (1) in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this machine.
I put the NIC (2) in the 1st Machine : I can't wake up this machine.

So, I conclude that the parameter is only saved in the NIC. But I'm not
sure...

[Kevin Lawton]

test <test@test.com> wrote:
| Another test
|
| I have two machines.
|
| 1st Machine :
| NIC - WakeOnLAN ON (1)
|
| 2nd Machine :
| NIC - WakeOnLAN OFF (2)
|
| I put the NIC (1) in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this machine.
| I put the NIC (2) in the 1st Machine : I can't wake up this machine.
|
| So, I conclude that the parameter is only saved in the NIC. But I'm
| not sure...

Nope, not exactly.

For an NIC to do wake-on-LAN it has on-board hardware support to:
a) Recognise a 'magic packet' - its MAC address repeated so many times,
and;
b) Activate the WOL signal via the flying lead which plugs between it and
a m/board connactor.
Nothing gets 'stored' in the NIC from boot to boot,or by the BIOS, it is a
hardware function triggered by the content of the hardware buffer.

For an m/board to do wake-on-LAN, it must:
a) Provide the +5v 'standby' current to the NIC - part of the ATX spec;
b) Have the WOL connector on-board and the associated logic to suppot
it - also ATX;
c) Have 'WOL enable' set in the BIOS;

From my experience with Gigabyte m/boards - and a whole bunch of tests
done recently - if all of the above are 'present and correct' then sending
the rght magic packet to powered-nut-mot-booted machine will result in it
performing the same function as it the power button has been pressed:
a) From the 'standby' or 'hibernate' or 'suspend-to-RAM' states, it will
'resume';
b) From a powered-down state it will perform a full boot-up.

What happens if the machine completely loses power, so the +5v standby
current is interrupted, is a whole different issue.

Kevin.

[H Brett Bolen]

test wrote:
Another test I have two machines. 1st Machine : NIC - WakeOnLAN ON (1) 2nd Machine : NIC - WakeOnLAN OFF (2) I put the NIC (1) in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this machine. I put the NIC (2) in the 1st Machine : I can't wake up this machine. So, I conclude that the parameter is only saved in the NIC. But I'm not sure...

how did you set 'NIC - WakeOnLan " On and Off? What make/model
is the NIC?

Thanks.

b

[crom]

I set the WakeOnLAN on/off from Windows.

3Com 3C905C-TX
Intel Pro/1000 MT Network Connection

[crom]

"I put the NIC (1) - WakeOnLAN ON in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this
machine."

But why can i wake up this machine ? It was WakeOnLAN OFF only in Windows...

I don't understand :(

Too many questions :)

[Kevin Lawton]

test <test@test.com> wrote:
| "I put the NIC (1) - WakeOnLAN ON in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up
| this machine."
|
| But why can i wake up this machine ? It was WakeOnLAN OFF only in
| Windows...
|
| I don't understand :(
|
| Too many questions :)

Okay - one step at a time.
The WOL function occurs before Windoze has even started to load - it
powers the machine back on.
WOL is enabled/disablled in the BIOS. If it is enabled, then it should
work - given the correct hardware.
Would be interested in knowing whereabouts in which version of Windoze you
found the option to turn OFF WOL ?
Kevin.

[test]

in Windows 98/2000/XP

I test everything :
You must enable WakeOnLAN in the OS and the BIOS.

[John]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:43:50 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Lawton"
<kepla@btinternet.com> wrote:
test <test@test.com> wrote: | "I put the NIC (1) - WakeOnLAN ON in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up | this machine." | | But why can i wake up this machine ? It was WakeOnLAN OFF only in | Windows... | | I don't understand :( | | Too many questions :) Okay - one step at a time. The WOL function occurs before Windoze has even started to load - itpowers the machine back on. WOL is enabled/disablled in the BIOS. If it is enabled, then it shouldwork - given the correct hardware. Would be interested in knowing whereabouts in which version of Windoze youfound the option to turn OFF WOL ? Kevin.

The WOL function does indeed occur before Windows loads, which is the
whole issue of the thread, that "something" is discriminating between
different settings, not the BIOS, as that m'board BIOS isn't executed
yet. It's not a certain version of Windows that allows changing the
WOL feature, it's all(?) versions, an option given by the NIC driver,
often accessible in the networking properties or perhaps Device
Manager props for the NIC. As an example:

http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif

My memory of it is a bit vague, but I believe this feature is
implemented even if the NIC doesn't have a WOL header on it, then by
PCI bus feature.

[Kevin Lawton]

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
|| Okay - one step at a time.
|| The WOL function occurs before Windoze has even started to load - it
|| powers the machine back on.
|| WOL is enabled/disablled in the BIOS. If it is enabled, then it
|| should work - given the correct hardware.
|| Would be interested in knowing whereabouts in which version of
|| Windoze you found the option to turn OFF WOL ?
|| Kevin.
|
| The WOL function does indeed occur before Windows loads, which is the
| whole issue of the thread, that "something" is discriminating between
| different settings, not the BIOS, as that m'board BIOS isn't executed
| yet. It's not a certain version of Windows that allows changing the
| WOL feature, it's all(?) versions, an option given by the NIC driver,
| often accessible in the networking properties or perhaps Device
| Manager props for the NIC. As an example:
|
| http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif
|
| My memory of it is a bit vague, but I believe this feature is
| implemented even if the NIC doesn't have a WOL header on it, then by
| PCI bus feature.

The above is a feature of the Linksys driver. Other drivers, for example
3com or RealTek, will alow you to set whether the NIC can bring the machine
out of standby mode via the 'Power Management' tab.
The reason why the above can be made a driver feature is that in standby
mode (also sometimes called 'susped to RAM') Windows is still loaded. Some
m/boards will have a small LED to indicate that the RAM is still powered
during standby. This helps to warn users not to remove or replace RAM strips
during this time.
Should system power be completely remove at this time then the contents of
RAM, and thus the 'standby' status will be lost.
The 'Magic Packet' --> Wake On Lan feature will just cause the machine to
power up appropriate to the way it was shut down. Just the same as pressing
the front panel power button. Power down into standby - and it comes out of
standby, Power down to 'hibernate' (AKA: 'suspend to disk') - and it comes
out of hibernation, power down fully - and it boots up.
Make any hardware changes between power-down and WOL and the results will
be less predictable.
AFAIK there is no detail in the PCI specification to provide for the WOL
signal - hence the seperate flying lead. What IS provided for via the PCI
bus is the +5v 'standby' current - and that is part of the ATX
specification.
The driver for the NIC will probably show the above feature regardless of
whether is has actually been implemented on the card or not.
Hope we've just about got the explanation nailed down now.
Kevin.

[John]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:23:13 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Lawton"
<kepla@btinternet.com> wrote:

| The WOL function does indeed occur before Windows loads, which is the | whole issue of the thread, that "something" is discriminating between | different settings, not the BIOS, as that m'board BIOS isn't executed | yet. It's not a certain version of Windows that allows changing the | WOL feature, it's all(?) versions, an option given by the NIC driver, | often accessible in the networking properties or perhaps Device | Manager props for the NIC. As an example: | | http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif | | My memory of it is a bit vague, but I believe this feature is | implemented even if the NIC doesn't have a WOL header on it, then by | PCI bus feature. The above is a feature of the Linksys driver. Other drivers, for example3com or RealTek, will alow you to set whether the NIC can bring the machineout of standby mode via the 'Power Management' tab. The reason why the above can be made a driver feature is that in standbymode (also sometimes called 'susped to RAM') Windows is still loaded.

No, that driver feature is NOT just a driver feature, it actually
controls how the "NIC" responds when the machine is OFF. I have used
that very same NIC (or another EXACTLY like it) to power on an old ATX
and it depends on which setting you choose. Again, this is why this
thread exists, because it is not as simple as you imply.

Somem/boards will have a small LED to indicate that the RAM is still poweredduring standby. This helps to warn users not to remove or replace RAM stripsduring this time. Should system power be completely remove at this time then the contents ofRAM, and thus the 'standby' status will be lost.

We are not talking about a sleep mode. We're not talking about
suspend to RAM, we're talking about OFF, ATX soft-off, with AC still
going to the power supply.
The 'Magic Packet' --> Wake On Lan feature will just cause the machine topower up appropriate to the way it was shut down. Just the same as pressingthe front panel power button. Power down into standby - and it comes out ofstandby, Power down to 'hibernate' (AKA: 'suspend to disk') - and it comesout of hibernation, power down fully - and it boots up. Make any hardware changes between power-down and WOL and the results willbe less predictable. AFAIK there is no detail in the PCI specification to provide for the WOLsignal - hence the seperate flying lead. What IS provided for via the PCIbus is the +5v 'standby' current - and that is part of the ATXspecification.

There needs be no specific PCI spec for WOL, because it (PCI) is more
versatile than that... not only the NIC, but any PCI device can do it,
if that device is designed to, and appropriate BIOS settings, set.
The driver for the NIC will probably show the above feature regardless ofwhether is has actually been implemented on the card or not. Hope we've just about got the explanation nailed down now. Kevin.

Just about all NICs these days support it, I'd expect it's more common
for a card that can do it, to have a driver with that functionality
omitted.

[John]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:45:24 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

No, that driver feature is NOT just a driver feature, it actuallycontrols how the "NIC" responds when the machine is OFF. I have usedthat very same NIC (or another EXACTLY like it) to power on an old ATXand it depends on which setting you choose. Again, this is why thisthread exists, because it is not as simple as you imply.

Upon double-checking this, it appears that I'm either partially wrong,
or that it depends on the specific motherboard, or both. I just tried
an Asus A7S333 with Award BIOS (the system that the Linksys NIC from
my previously linked image, is installed in), and it will power-up the
system independant of the driver setting, but doesn't need the WOL
cable, only the setting in the BIOS for "Power Up On PCI Card" to be
enabled.

I still feel my memory is correct about that card providing power-on
ONLY when the driver had the setting enabled, I even remember the
motherboard it was used in at that time, an Intel AL440LX, which did
have a WOL cable installed unlike the A7S333.

[daytripper]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:45:24 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
[snipped]There needs be no specific PCI spec for WOL, because it (PCI) is moreversatile than that...

That's true because WOL has nothing to do with the PCI bus per se. One could
implement WOL on an ISA-only system, no big deal, as the implementations
pre-PME# use sidebanding from the pluggable agent to the host system board.
not only the NIC, but any PCI device can do it, if that device is designed to,
[snipped again]

I'm presuming you're referring to PME# here, but that exists only on platforms
that support PCI 2.2 at the minimum, and that actually implement PME# (not the
majority of systems to this point, fwiw)...

/daytripper