TDD without pay-off

[Guest]

Gerold Keefer <gkeefer@avoca-vsm.com> wrote:
Test-first pays off only slightly in terms of increased reliability.

What seems to be the problem? You're saying that test-first is associated
with increased reliability. So it has a benefit. That seems to be contrary
to the title of the thread, though. :)

Here's a radical idea...if you don't like developing test first, then don't.
Don't add any tests at all to your code. Nobody is forcing you.

[Guest]

Gerold Keefer <gkeefer@avoca-vsm.com> wrote:
somebody approached meand reported me about a project where people *where forced* to dopair programming, dispite their distaste, based on the assumption that"hype makes it right".

That sounds more like a management/people issue than an extreme programming
problem.

[Ilja Preuß]

brougham3@yahoo.com wrote: Gerold Keefer <gkeefer@avoca-vsm.com> wrote: somebody approached me and reported me about a project where people *where forced* to do pair programming, dispite their distaste, based on the assumption that "hype makes it right". That sounds more like a management/people issue than an extreme programming problem.

Specifically, all the established XP proponents I know of explicitely state
that a team needs to *choose* and *own* its process to be effective.