RDBMS : Do we still live in 20th century?

[Valentin Tihomirov]

It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from a
combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with
columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between fields
of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts
again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about
do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does?

Regards,
Valentin.

[Daniel Morgan]

Valentin Tihomirov wrote:
It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from a combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between fields of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does? Regards, Valentin.

Take your gasoline and go start a fire somewhere else.

Oh and while you are doing it ... ask Bill why he runs his SAP accounting system
on Oracle.

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[Chris Browne]

After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, Daniel Morgan <damorgan@exxesolutions.com> belched out...: Valentin Tihomirov wrote: It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from a combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between fields of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does? Take your gasoline and go start a fire somewhere else.
Oh and while you are doing it ... ask Bill why he runs his SAP accounting system on Oracle.

I seem to recall the original R/3 project at Microsoft being on DB/2
and OS/400, back in '96/'97, which was followed up by them migrating
to Microsoft's port of Sybase SQL Server on some insanely large array
of Intel boxes.

After all, SAP supported DB/2 _long_ before it supported Oracle...
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[Jim Kennedy]

I guess you don't know that many modern RDBMSs do you.
Jim

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"Valentin Tihomirov" <valentin@abelectron.com> wrote in message
news:3efa22cb$1_1@news.estpak.ee... It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from
a combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between
fields of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does? Regards, Valentin.

[Jerry Gitomer]

Valentin Tihomirov wrote: It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from a combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between fields of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does? Regards, Valentin.
Why should the major database vendors duplicate the
functionality of Erwin?

As a DBA I design and create the tables for a project one time.
Although I must admit that it usually takes two or three
iterations before we get them right I am able to use Erwin's GUI
to modify them as well as create them. Once I am done the
application goes into production where those tables tend to be
used thousands of times a day for several years.

What I care about is the reliability, efficiency, effectiveness
and reliability of the database engine. In order to be able to
guarantee the reliability of the database I am quite willing to
write my table creation scripts using notepad or vi.

Jerry Gitomer

[Hans Forbrich]

Jerry Gitomer wrote:
Why should the major database vendors duplicate the functionality of Erwin?

Because it's pretty. And it's visible. Therefore the sales and marketing guys
can point to it and say "look at the wonderful things we're doing". And thus the
customer's attention can be diverted away from reliable, efficient and effective
(and definitely away from license agreements). With little effort it makes great
ad-ware copy that can be copied to the inside cover of every magazine in North
America.

There's at least one 'database' vendor that definitely needs this kind of
advantage. (Hint - it's not Oracle <g>)

Cynically,
/Hans

[Jonathan Leffler]

Valentin Tihomirov wrote: It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from a combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between fields of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does?


Well, you create the schema once for the development system, then
again for the test system, then again for the production system, then
again for the backup production system, and then for each of the 3,000
stores you have around the world, and...then you get bored with all
those pretty button presses and combo boxes (and debugging the
problems because you mis-pressed the button once). Also, it is rather
hard to do version control on button presses - much easier on scripts.

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[Valentin Tihomirov]

would be more correct.

[Valentin Tihomirov]

I have about 15 the most rated at google today. They are dbVisualizer, SQL
Developer, Prime Vision, OraEditPro, AquaData Studio, to name some.
Functionality is too poor. However, I' far from expert in this are. Please,
tell me better examples if you do.

[Jim Kennedy]

Those aren't databases those are tools. As I said clearly you don't have
much experience with databases. Wonderful that you can doa Google search,
just proves my point, you don't have much experience with databases and the
toold the vendor provides. GUI is often a cruch , how do you do version
control on a GUI?
Jim

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"Valentin Tihomirov" <valentin@abelectron.com> wrote in message
news:3efab7c4$1_1@news.estpak.ee... I have about 15 the most rated at google today. They are dbVisualizer, SQL Developer, Prime Vision, OraEditPro, AquaData Studio, to name some. Functionality is too poor. However, I' far from expert in this are.
Please, tell me better examples if you do.

[Chris Browne]

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, "Valentin Tihomirov" <valentin@abelectron.com> transmitted: It is much more convenient to define a type of a column selecting it from a combo box of possible types. I create tables only once, fill them with columns, set attributes for the columns. Then I set relations between fields of different tables. There is absolutely no need to program these scripts again and again for every table. Why none of the modern RDBMS I know about do not provide the functionality like MS Enterprise Manager does?

... Because this is NOT the functionality of a RDBMS, just as "MS
Enterprise Manager" is NOT a RDBMS.

1. When people need this sort of functionality, they use specialized
tools like "MS Enterprise Manager" or ErWin or other such things.

2. Pushing this sort of functionality into a RDBMS will just lard it
up with pointless flab that makes it buggier. Hmm... Sounds like
the typical Microsoft application to me...

3. Why would a "combo box" be so useful anyways? There aren't that
many potential data types that it should be problematic to choose
this.

4. This is the WRONG ANSWER anyways.

The right answer would be for SQL to be extended with a keyword
similar to "CREATE TYPE."

You might thus define:

CREATE TYPE CUSTOMER_ID CHARACTER VARYING(12);

(Perhaps with the possibility of having additional constraints.)

And then use a set of types, thus defined, to unify the handling
of data types throughout your application.
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Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?

[Valentin Tihomirov]

Haven't you ever heard this statement from TV: " .. by gentle touch of a
button"?
And I like it, I like renaming of files by clicking &Rename in the context
menu. Yes, I use Windows. I like refactoring schema in database during
developement process until I'm satisfied. Nobody told me how this should be
done right. The main priority is a good design (irredundant relationships).

[Jim Kennedy]

If you don't know what version control is then you are not using it and your
development is screwed. So after the 200th change in requirements and
something breaks or you need to go back to an 5 versions of one of the
tables how do you do that. Answer version or source code control. All
development professionals (dbas included) of any caliber use version
control.
Jim

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"Valentin Tihomirov" <valentin@abelectron.com> wrote in message
news:3efc6126$1_1@news.estpak.ee... Haven't you ever heard this statement from TV: " .. by gentle touch of a button"? And I like it, I like renaming of files by clicking &Rename in the context menu. Yes, I use Windows. I like refactoring schema in database during developement process until I'm satisfied. Nobody told me how this should
be done right. The main priority is a good design (irredundant
relationships).

[Anon]

> 4. This is the WRONG ANSWER anyways. The right answer would be for SQL to be extended with a keyword similar to "CREATE TYPE." You might thus define: CREATE TYPE CUSTOMER_ID CHARACTER VARYING(12); (Perhaps with the possibility of having additional constraints.) And then use a set of types, thus defined, to unify the handling of data types throughout your application.

Oracle kind of supports this with object types. ANSI also has some
extensions to SQL to support this. There are, of course, some
performance and manageability issues to be considered before going
this route.

A.

[Chris Browne]

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, "Valentin Tihomirov" <valentin@abelectron.com> transmitted: Haven't you ever heard this statement from TV: " .. by gentle touch of a button"? And I like it, I like renaming of files by clicking &Rename in the context menu. Yes, I use Windows. I like refactoring schema in database during developement process until I'm satisfied. Nobody told me how this should be done right. The main priority is a good design (irredundant relationships).

Does that mean you don't understand version control? Or that you have
never been in an environment where applications got complex enough to
require it?

If the former, then we have no reason to value your opinions. If the
latter, likewise...
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