Harddiscs

[Adam Richardson]

Hi,

Re: Me buying a new (generic) harddisc and asking about what would work with
RISC OS 3.7.

Well, thanks to Phil and others for the advice and answers. I've now got a
new harddisc in my Risc PC :-)

In case anyone cares...

I ended up buying a 15GB Maxtor harddisc from Watford Electronics
via their website for twenty quid which works great. Fitting and configuring
using the CDROM cables was a dodle and I downloaded !HForm version 2.51 and
just went with all the defaults offered. I had been thinking that I'd /not/
format it to 15GB in order to avoid LFAU (?) problems and stuff which a few
people had metioned but in the end !HForm didn't ask me and I just ended up
with a 15GB drive! (Would you have to change the number of cylinders or
something to get a different formatted size?)

This seems to work fine - in actual fact it has improved the performance of
my system - which was unexpected. My boot up time was reduced by 25%, disc
access is faster and, if nothing else, my computer is a lot quieter! (My old
disc used to chatter away.) The 1.7 GB on my old disc takes up 3.6 GB on the
new one - but that still leaves 11GB free!

So a good exerience had by all :-) I'd recomend it to anyone else thinking
about it!

Thanks,
Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

Never do today, what you can put off until tomorrow.

[druck]

On 20 Jul 2003 Adam Richardson <cooladamrichardson@yahoo.com> wrote: Re: Me buying a new (generic) harddisc and asking about what would work with RISC OS 3.7. Well, thanks to Phil and others for the advice and answers. I've now got a new harddisc in my Risc PC :-) In case anyone cares... I ended up buying a 15GB Maxtor harddisc from Watford Electronics via their website for twenty quid which works great. Fitting and configuring using the CDROM cables was a dodle and I downloaded !HForm version 2.51 and just went with all the defaults offered. I had been thinking that I'd /not/ format it to 15GB in order to avoid LFAU (?) problems and stuff which a few people had metioned but in the end !HForm didn't ask me and I just ended up with a 15GB drive! (Would you have to change the number of cylinders or something to get a different formatted size?)

Yes. When it asks if you want to accept the current disc shape, answer no
and reduce the number of cylinders.
This seems to work fine - in actual fact it has improved the performance of my system - which was unexpected. My boot up time was reduced by 25%, disc access is faster and, if nothing else, my computer is a lot quieter! (My old disc used to chatter away.) The 1.7 GB on my old disc takes up 3.6 GB on the new one - but that still leaves 11GB free!

Which you may be able to fit another 5.2GB, if you are lucky and have not run
out of objects which are limited to 65532
So a good exerience had by all :-) I'd recomend it to anyone else thinking about it!

I would recommend upgrading to RISC OS 4:-

* You would be able to use up to 98% of the space rather than 46%
* 10 character filename limit removed
* 77 file directory limit removed
* Many other improvements to the OS, GUI, performance, etc

---druck

--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

[Adam Richardson]

In a message on 20 Jul, druck wrote:
Which you may be able to fit another 5.2GB, if you are lucky and have not run out of objects which are limited to 65532 So a good exerience had by all :-) I'd recomend it to anyone else thinking about it! I would recommend upgrading to RISC OS 4:- * You would be able to use up to 98% of the space rather than 46%

Yes, but I don't need the extra 5 GB, let alone an extra 10. (I actually
bought the harddisc as I was worried about physical failure in my old one - I
believe prompted by an article on drobe ;-)
* 10 character filename limit removed

I use !LongFiles
* 77 file directory limit removed

Never once encountered.
* Many other improvements to the OS, GUI, performance, etc

Hmm, I'm sure this is true, and I did consider upgrading operating system but
at the end of the day I did not need to do this in order to solve my problem.
(Finding a backup solution for my ageing harddisc.)

As for the more general merits of upgrading to RO4 - the main thing holding
me back is that I don't want my operating system to become a kind of
experimental, betaish thing softloaded from disc - which seems like what
Select is. As I understand it, that's the only option for me?

Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

Never do today, what you can put off until tomorrow.

[druck]

On 21 Jul 2003 Adam Richardson <cooladamrichardson@yahoo.com> wrote: As for the more general merits of upgrading to RO4 - the main thing holding me back is that I don't want my operating system to become a kind of experimental, betaish thing softloaded from disc - which seems like what Select is. As I understand it, that's the only option for me?

No RISC OS 4 and Select are seperate entities. RISC OS 4 is a ROM based
OS as previous versions, and is extremely stable. It can be purchased
without Select.

Select is the softloaded system, and it requires RISC OS 4 to run. You can
choose to run the latest very stable version, or the pervious also very
stable versions.

---druck

--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

[John Sandford]

In message <eb5b9f154c.adamr@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>
Adam Richardson <cooladamrichardson@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

As for the more general merits of upgrading to RO4 - the main thing holding me back is that I don't want my operating system to become a kind of experimental, betaish thing softloaded from disc - which seems like what Select is. As I understand it, that's the only option for me? Adam
Risc OS 4 and Select are two different products.
OS4 is a rom based os as 3.7/3.11/3.5 etc
Select is softloaded in conjunction with OS4 and is not supplied with
OS4 (it is a subscription upgrade scheme)

--
John Sandford West Herts UK

Hemel Hempstead Risc OS User Group www.hhrug.org.uk

[Steve Fryatt]

On 21 Jul, Adam Richardson wrote in message
<eb5b9f154c.adamr@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>:
As for the more general merits of upgrading to RO4 - the main thing holding me back is that I don't want my operating system to become a kind of experimental, betaish thing softloaded from disc - which seems like what Select is. As I understand it, that's the only option for me?

No: Select and RISC OS 4 are not the same thing. RISC OS 4 comes in ROMS,
is three or four years old and is stable. You can buy it and use it
without Select. Using a big disc without RO4 is fairly daft: you get the
stability of not using LongFiles and the improved efficiencies of the new
FS. Other benefits include having things like the nested Wimp in ROM,
saving you memory.

Select is the softloaded system. Once over the irrational fear of
softloaded OSs (you still have physical ROMs installed), you can decide to
use the stable CD releases or the 'beta' releases off the website. The
betas seem quite stable to me (I'm currently using 4.36 -- Select 3i1 --
on the RiscPC and haven't encountered any real problems yet).

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

* "Smile, it confuses people." - Scott Adams

[Adam Richardson]

In a message on 21 Jul, Steve Fryatt wrote:
On 21 Jul, Adam Richardson wrote in message <eb5b9f154c.adamr@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>: As for the more general merits of upgrading to RO4 - the main thing holding me back is that I don't want my operating system to become a kind of experimental, betaish thing softloaded from disc - which seems like what Select is. As I understand it, that's the only option for me? No: Select and RISC OS 4 are not the same thing. RISC OS 4 comes in ROMS, is three or four years old and is stable. You can buy it and use it without Select. Using a big disc without RO4 is fairly daft: you get the stability of not using LongFiles and the improved efficiencies of the new FS. Other benefits include having things like the nested Wimp in ROM, saving you memory.

Ah, sorry - if I'd thought a bit harder I probably would have remembered that
you can buy RO4 on ROMs but, thinking now, the reason that I've forgotten
about it is that it doesn't seem to offer very much. (Whereas I get the
feeling that Select might?)

I still do not believe I am "daft". Longfiles, while obviously not ideal, is
a fantastic "fix" and anyway, that is irrelevant when considering my basic
situation: "Do I need RO4 to run my new harddisc?" No.

Nested wimp in ROM? Yeh, um, great, 'cause I'm often running out of RAM.
Sorry, bit of sarcasm there ;-) What I meant to say was: "The only time I
ever run out of RAM is sometimes when I run !PC and that's not a big hassle."

Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

Do one thing every day that scares you.

[Steve Fryatt]

On 22 Jul, Adam Richardson wrote in message
<27f121164c.adamr@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>:
I still do not believe I am "daft". Longfiles, while obviously not ideal, is a fantastic "fix" and anyway,

That'll be the same LongFiles that Jason Tribbeck won't use because he
wrote it and knows what it does in order to work[1], will it? ;-)
that is irrelevant when considering my basic situation: "Do I need RO4 to run my new harddisc?" No. Nested wimp in ROM? Yeh, um, great, 'cause I'm often running out of RAM. Sorry, bit of sarcasm there ;-) What I meant to say was: "The only time I ever run out of RAM is sometimes when I run !PC and that's not a big hassle."

For someone advocating not buying Select because it's softloaded off disc,
can you see the small inconsistency in your position here...? :-)


1. If I remember the wording on his website correctly.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

* "Smile, it confuses people." - Scott Adams

[Adam Richardson]

In a message on 23 Jul, Steve Fryatt wrote:
On 22 Jul, Adam Richardson wrote in message <27f121164c.adamr@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>: I still do not believe I am "daft". Longfiles, while obviously not ideal, is a fantastic "fix" and anyway, That'll be the same LongFiles that Jason Tribbeck won't use because he wrote it and knows what it does in order to work[1], will it? ;-)

I know exactly what LongFiles does - I've booted my computer without it and
seen the mess but, um, so what?
Nested wimp in ROM? Yeh, um, great, 'cause I'm often running out of RAM. Sorry, bit of sarcasm there ;-) What I meant to say was: "The only time I ever run out of RAM is sometimes when I run !PC and that's not a big hassle." For someone advocating not buying Select because it's softloaded off disc, can you see the small inconsistency in your position here...? :-)

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. That I use MS Windows which is
softloaded? That's not through choice! Alas there are many websites out there
which won't accept anything less. (More?)

Also, I'm not /advocating/ anything - I'm just saying that it doesn't really
appeal to me.

Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether.

[Jason Tribbeck]

I missed this discussion, and I think it's important I reply.

Steve Fryatt wrote:
That'll be the same LongFiles that Jason Tribbeck won't use because he wrote it and knows what it does in order to work[1], will it? ;-)

<snip>
1. If I remember the wording on his website correctly.

No, you don't remember the website. I've never said this on the web
site. However, it was in an interview with Acorn User in 1996.

However, that was pre-LongFiles 2. LongFiles 0.01 to 0.11 was an
incredibly messy hack - I'd find a problem and shoe-horn code in to fix
it. Because it was a voyage of discovery (and a test 'to see if it could
be done'), there was no software methodology behind it.

Version 2 was a completely rewritten release - now the basic principals
were known, it was easy to develop it properly, in a way that was more
expandable and maintainable. In fact, I haven't had a bug reported for a
heck of a long time (two years?).

Since version 2, I now use it *all the time* - even though I have RISC
OS 4 (I've still got some E format drives).

--
Jason Tribbeck

newsmaster7@tribbeck.com - 20K download limit - anything larger won't
be received.