View Full Version : AMD's 64-bit adventure begins
dfgdfgdfgdfg
09-23-2003, 11:51 AM
http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html
:-)
Spam Me Please
09-23-2003, 05:14 PM
>>>>> "dfgdfgdfgdfg" == dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> writes:
dfgdfgdfgdfg> http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-)
Question:
What is the difference between the
1) Athlon 64
2) Athlon 64 with hypertransport
3) Opteron
It gets confusing but it is hard to find the clear differences. Anyway
web sites explaining the difference between the chips and what would
be the benchmark (performance) differences?
Thanks,
Alan
Keith R. Williams
09-23-2003, 05:38 PM
In article <m3ad8vq97k.fsf@spamme.edge.net>, spamme@edge.net
says...>>> "dfgdfgdfgdfg" == dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> writes: dfgdfgdfgdfg> http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-) Question: What is the difference between the
First, they're all "Hammers", though intended for different
markets.
1) Athlon 64
Desktop 64 bit processor. Designed for single processor systems.
A little limited in the memory area and connectivity.
2) Athlon 64 with hypertransport
It has a hypertransport link (IIRC, they all have one).
3) Opteron
Server chip. Multiple SDRAM interfaces. Multiple Hypertransport
links. ...really intended for multi-processor configurations
(really nice for NUMA). It gets confusing but it is hard to find the clear differences. Anyway web sites explaining the difference between the chips and what would be the benchmark (performance) differences?
Try http://www.amd.com/. It's all there.
--
Keith
Spam Me Please
09-23-2003, 07:42 PM
>>>>> "Keith" == Keith R Williams <krw@attglobal.net> writes:
Thanks for the info will check out that link! Anyway even AMD uses
different names. I guess things will have settle down before the names
of these different processors are consistent amoung vendors.
Keith> In article <m3ad8vq97k.fsf@spamme.edge.net>, spamme@edge.net
Keith> says...>>>> "dfgdfgdfgdfg" == dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> writes:
dfgdfgdfgdfg> http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-) Question: What is the difference between the
Keith> First, they're all "Hammers", though intended for different
Keith> markets.
1) Athlon 64
Keith> Desktop 64 bit processor. Designed for single processor
Keith> systems. A little limited in the memory area and connectivity.
2) Athlon 64 with hypertransport
Keith> It has a hypertransport link (IIRC, they all have one).
3) Opteron
Keith> Server chip. Multiple SDRAM interfaces. Multiple
Keith> Hypertransport links. ...really intended for multi-processor
Keith> configurations (really nice for NUMA). It gets confusing but it is hard to find the clear differences. Anyway web sites explaining the difference between the chips and what would be the benchmark (performance) differences?
Keith> Try http://www.amd.com/. It's all there.
Keith> -- Keith
Spam Me Please
09-23-2003, 08:00 PM
Took a quick look at the amd.com web site specs.
1) Athlon 64 - 754-pin micro PGA, lidded, 256/512/1024 Kbyte cache,
one hypertransport link.
2) Athlon 64 FX - 940-pin lidded ceramic micro PGA, 1024 Kbyte cache, one
hypertransport link.
3) Opteron - 940-pin lidded ceramic micro PGA, 1024 Kbyte cache, 3
hypertransport Links.
I guess the Athlon 64 FX has the same footprint size as the Opteron.
Any other major differences. I have to admit that was a quick look.
Thanks,
Alan
>> "Keith" == Keith R Williams <krw@attglobal.net> writes:
Keith> In article <m3ad8vq97k.fsf@spamme.edge.net>, spamme@edge.net
Keith> says...>>>> "dfgdfgdfgdfg" == dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> writes:
dfgdfgdfgdfg> http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-) Question: What is the difference between the
Keith> First, they're all "Hammers", though intended for different
Keith> markets.
1) Athlon 64
Keith> Desktop 64 bit processor. Designed for single processor
Keith> systems. A little limited in the memory area and connectivity.
2) Athlon 64 with hypertransport
Keith> It has a hypertransport link (IIRC, they all have one).
3) Opteron
Keith> Server chip. Multiple SDRAM interfaces. Multiple
Keith> Hypertransport links. ...really intended for multi-processor
Keith> configurations (really nice for NUMA). It gets confusing but it is hard to find the clear differences. Anyway web sites explaining the difference between the chips and what would be the benchmark (performance) differences?
Keith> Try http://www.amd.com/. It's all there.
Keith> -- Keith
The little lost angel
09-23-2003, 11:24 PM
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:00:30 -0500, Spam Me Please <spamme@edge.net>
wrote:
1) Athlon 64 - 754-pin micro PGA, lidded, 256/512/1024 Kbyte cache,one hypertransport link.
Single channel, uses unbuffered DDR RAM
2) Athlon 64 FX - 940-pin lidded ceramic micro PGA, 1024 Kbyte cache, onehypertransport link.
I think the current name for this thing should be AthlonFX. You missed
out on the dual memory channel, DDR400 buffered RAM
3) Opteron - 940-pin lidded ceramic micro PGA, 1024 Kbyte cache, 3hypertransport Links.
Again, dual channel memory, DDR333 registered ECC RAM
p.s. your newsreader or settings are broken or something, it dumps the
original poster's post at the bottom and add bloat... ;PppP
--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
Chris
09-24-2003, 02:59 AM
dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> wrote in message news:<BB960056.3769%dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com>... http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-)
Normally I leave posting in this group to the regulars, but this time
I couldn't resist: did anyone see for Athlon 64 reviews? Tom seems
completely out of his mind, comparing Athlon 64 vs P4 using Win XP...
IMHO that's like driving a Ferrari off road through the woods and
complain it's not as fast as a Land Rover. Anand appeared to know his
stuff better, benchmarking Linux 32 vs Linux 64.
Regards,
Chris
Spam Me Please
09-24-2003, 05:05 AM
Thanks!
The> p.s. your newsreader or settings are broken or something, it
The> dumps the original poster's post at the bottom and add bloat...
The> ;PppP
No bloat I feel better already.
cleurs@wish.net (Chris) wrote in message news:<89660e7c.0309240259.31188549@posting.google.com>... dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> wrote in message news:<BB960056.3769%dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com>... http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-) Normally I leave posting in this group to the regulars, but this time I couldn't resist: did anyone see for Athlon 64 reviews? Tom seems completely out of his mind, comparing Athlon 64 vs P4 using Win XP... IMHO that's like driving a Ferrari off road through the woods and complain it's not as fast as a Land Rover. Anand appeared to know his stuff better, benchmarking Linux 32 vs Linux 64.
Most people in the market for the CPU will be interested in
running Windows on it so XP performance is what will matter to them.
I suspect very few want the chip for its '64-bittedness' but instead
want to see speed improvements.
It's pretty impressive that for the most part the Athlon 64
outperforms existing Intel P4s (though Intel muddied the waters with
the P4EE). Hopefully a 64bit XP will be the icing on the cake for
people who buy the chip now. I just hope that it can remain
compatible with existing apps - and having to have new 64bit drivers
will be a real problem for many.
Gav
Tony Hill
09-24-2003, 05:35 AM
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:14:07 -0500, Spam Me Please <spamme@edge.net>
wrote:>>> "dfgdfgdfgdfg" == dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> writes: dfgdfgdfgdfg> http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-)Question:What is the difference between the1) Athlon 642) Athlon 64 with hypertransport
Err, all of these chips have Hypertransport. Perhaps you're wondering
about the Athlon64 vs. the Athlon64 FX?
3) OpteronIt gets confusing but it is hard to find the clear differences. Anywayweb sites explaining the difference between the chips and what wouldbe the benchmark (performance) differences?
Plenty of both of these out there, here's two:
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000253
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1884
Those should clear things up. Here's the quick run-down on the
different chips:
Athlon64:
2.0GHz (for the "3200+' model)
1MB L2 cache
64-bit memory controller using unregistered or registered memory
1 hypertransport link
Athlon64 FX:
2.2GHz (for the "51" model)
1MB L2 cache
128-bit memory controller using registered memory only
1 hypertransport link
Opteron:
1.4 to 2.0GHz
1MB L2 cache
128-bit memory controller using registered memory only
3 hypertransport links
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
Tony Hill
09-24-2003, 04:22 PM
On 24 Sep 2003 03:59:08 -0700, cleurs@wish.net (Chris) wrote:Normally I leave posting in this group to the regulars, but this timeI couldn't resist: did anyone see for Athlon 64 reviews? Tom seemscompletely out of his mind,
Nothing new there! :>
Did you notice how a number of the comments made for individual
benchmarks bared absolutely no resemblance to the results?
comparing Athlon 64 vs P4 using Win XP...IMHO that's like driving a Ferrari off road through the woods andcomplain it's not as fast as a Land Rover.
Well, to be fair, there is no 64-bit version of Windows available for
AMD64 yet (not counting the beta release with little driver support
and several bugs left to iron out). So if you want to run an Athlon64
under Windows now, it's 32-bit for the time being.
Anand appeared to know hisstuff better, benchmarking Linux 32 vs Linux 64.
It's unfortunate that Anand didn't do a bit more benchmarking under
Linux, including some comparatives results for the P4 as well.
However, there is one REALLY interesting result that he came up with
in those tests, the LAME encoding. Here the Athlon64 FX was a full
34% faster in 64-bit mode than in 32-bit mode. This was rather
unexpected for me. I figured most applications seeing a small (0-5%)
boost in performance when recompiling to 64-bits, perhaps a bit more
in cases where you have 1GB of memory or more (if you have less than
1GB of memory you can compile your kernel to be a bit faster but limit
you to only 960MB of memory). I figured there would be a few
applications that would see a much larger performance boost because
they needed 64-bit integers, but MP3 encoding was not one that jumped
to mind. Ace's Hardware as a review (link bellow) that suggests that
DivX encoding may also benefit a fair bit by going to 64-bit software,
though those results need to be taken with a grain of salt as AMD
provided the benchmarks.
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000256
There are lots of reviews out there now, so I'm going to check around
and see if I can track down any more 32 vs. 64-bit results. Most so
far have been about as expected (not a huge performance boost,
occasionally even a slight loss in performance when going to 64-bit
software), but there may be a few more surprises.
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
>Ace's Hardware as a review (link bellow) that suggests that DivX encoding may also benefit a fair bit by going to 64-bit software, though those results need to be taken with a grain of salt as AMD provided the benchmarks.
DivX was one of the presenters at the A64 launch event.
rms
Chris Huys
09-27-2003, 09:08 AM
gavs_usenet@swissonline.ch (Gav) wrote in message news:<3bf1057d.0309240524.12d99650@posting.google.com>... cleurs@wish.net (Chris) wrote in message news:<89660e7c.0309240259.31188549@posting.google.com>... dfgdfgdfgdfg <dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com> wrote in message news:<BB960056.3769%dfgdfg@sdfsdf.com>... http://news.com.com/2009-1006_3-5080659.html :-) Normally I leave posting in this group to the regulars, but this time I couldn't resist: did anyone see for Athlon 64 reviews? Tom seems completely out of his mind, comparing Athlon 64 vs P4 using Win XP... IMHO that's like driving a Ferrari off road through the woods and complain it's not as fast as a Land Rover. Anand appeared to know his stuff better, benchmarking Linux 32 vs Linux 64. Most people in the market for the CPU will be interested in running Windows on it so XP performance is what will matter to them. I suspect very few want the chip for its '64-bittedness' but instead want to see speed improvements. It's pretty impressive that for the most part the Athlon 64 outperforms existing Intel P4s (though Intel muddied the waters with the P4EE). Hopefully a 64bit XP will be the icing on the cake for people who buy the chip now. I just hope that it can remain compatible with existing apps - and having to have new 64bit drivers will be a real problem for many. Gav
64bit is the only reason you would want to buy a amd these days.
When WIN XP 64 bit comes out, everyone will want to buy a amd64.
And maybe just now the amount of 64bit applications is lacking, but
think in 3 years time, there will be hardly any application, which
will not come out in 64bit. (and would you want to have a intel 32bit
system at that time ?)
And yes a application written in 64bit, can easily outperform a
application in 32bit. Think about the enormous amount of RAM that you
will be able to use with 64bit apps. Especially graphics hungry/memory
eating games written in 64bit will completely outperform his 32bit
counterpart.
Its the old performance adiagium, youre disks are slow, memory is
cheap, by memory, lots of memory and run the application completely in
memory.
desktop systems with 32bit processors are "passe".
PS. About the 64bit drivers for win xp 64bit, I wouldnt worry to much.
Microsoft doesnt invest in windows xp 64bit, without being sure it
will be a instant success, so driver support will be taken care of.
PS2. The only thing that could hold back amd64 success would be
delivery problems of the components or a intel desktop 64bit
processor. ;-)
Chris.
Never anonymous Bud
09-27-2003, 11:39 AM
Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, jedivm@yahoo.com (Chris Huys)
scribbled:
When WIN XP 64 bit comes out, everyone will want to buy a amd64.
BBZZZZTTTT! Wrong answer, but thanks for playing.
To reply by email, remove the XYZ.
Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.
It's your SIG, say what you want to say....
Tony Hill
09-27-2003, 01:07 PM
On 27 Sep 2003 10:08:27 -0700, jedivm@yahoo.com (Chris Huys) wrote:64bit is the only reason you would want to buy a amd these days.
AMd is still VERY competitive on the low-end. If you're looking at a
real budget system, you're choice is either the AthlonXP or the
Celeron, and the AthlonXP beats the hell out of the Celeron any day.
Of course, it's only an extra $100-$150 to move up to a P4 2.4C or
2.6C chip, which is probably worthwhile for most users (at least in
western Europe and North America, in developing countries it's a whole
other ball game).
When WIN XP 64 bit comes out, everyone will want to buy a amd64.And maybe just now the amount of 64bit applications is lacking, butthink in 3 years time, there will be hardly any application, whichwill not come out in 64bit. (and would you want to have a intel 32bitsystem at that time ?)
That's a fairly optimistic time-frame. I suspect that a lot of
applications will have been ported to 64-bits by then, but unless
Intel has an AMD64 compatible processor out by then, or AMD gets a lot
more market share, I doubt that we'll get to the point where almost
all applications are AMD64 compatible.
And yes a application written in 64bit, can easily outperform aapplication in 32bit. Think about the enormous amount of RAM that youwill be able to use with 64bit apps. Especially graphics hungry/memoryeating games written in 64bit will completely outperform his 32bitcounterpart.
Ugg! I REALLY hope that most of my applications don't need more than
2GB of memory three years from now!
Its the old performance adiagium, youre disks are slow, memory ischeap, by memory, lots of memory and run the application completely inmemory.
Great idea, but if you're application is using 2GB of memory, that
means that you have a LOT of data to read from those slow hard disks
(or even slower networks).
Most applications don't need anywhere near that amount of memory now,
and they aren't going to need that kind of memory in three years time.
The beauty of AMD64 is that you can move the few applications that
need lots of memory to 64-bits easily while still running everything
else at full speed in 32-bit mode.
desktop systems with 32bit processors are "passe".PS. About the 64bit drivers for win xp 64bit, I wouldnt worry to much.Microsoft doesnt invest in windows xp 64bit, without being sure itwill be a instant success, so driver support will be taken care of.
When it first comes out, I suspect that there will be some problems
with driver support for the less common hardware. Most hardware will
eventually move to 64-bit support, but it isn't likely to be a high
priority right out of the starting blocks. If Microsoft provides the
drivers for your hardware, then you have no problems, but MS doesn't
support all hardware.
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
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