Via Processors

[Mike M]

Can anyone tell me where I can find comprehensive info on Via
processor compatibility issues? I'm wondering if the newer chips are
fully compatible rather than near-compatible. I've seen posts that
claim the near-compatibility is not an issue, but my experience leads
me to belive otherwise. Running windows and using Opera as a browser
the machine hangs hard every time I access a site using java. Right
now I'm using that machine to play with Linux.

[The little lost angel]

On 3 Jan 2004 08:10:29 -0800, ggs@mesford.com (Mike M) wrote:
me to belive otherwise. Running windows and using Opera as a browserthe machine hangs hard every time I access a site using java. Rightnow I'm using that machine to play with Linux.

Could be the Java. The VIA cpu isn't very powerful to begin with. On
my own AMD system, whenever I load a page with a little more than
complicated Java, there is the inevitable freeze for a short while. If
you haven't, try waiting a minute or two and see if things work.

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

[Tony Hill]

On 3 Jan 2004 08:10:29 -0800, ggs@mesford.com (Mike M) wrote:Can anyone tell me where I can find comprehensive info on Viaprocessor compatibility issues? I'm wondering if the newer chips arefully compatible rather than near-compatible. I've seen posts thatclaim the near-compatibility is not an issue, but my experience leadsme to belive otherwise. Running windows and using Opera as a browserthe machine hangs hard every time I access a site using java. Rightnow I'm using that machine to play with Linux.

They are fully compatible, or at least as compatible as Intel
processors or AMD processors (despite popular belief Intel processors
are not quite 100% compatible with other Intel processors, but it's
close enough that it almost never matters). It's much more likely
that any problems you are encountering have absolutely nothing to do
with the processor itself. The processor is damn near the last thing
in a computer system to cause compatibility issues. Application
software is FAR AND AWAY the largest cause of problems, following by
driver problems (the CPU needs no drivers, but the motherboard does).
Even when you get down to the level of actual hardware problems
(probably far less than 1% of all problems) the CPU is not a very
likely cause, with things like the power supply, memory and video
cards all being more common sources of errors.

My recommendation, start checking for application incompatibilities
(ie the version of JVM your are using not playing well with the
version of Opera) and/or driver issues (motherboard, sound card,
ethernet, video, etc). Chances are VERY high that it's one of these
things that is causing Java to crash.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

[Mike M]

> They are fully compatible, or at least as compatible as Intel processors or AMD processors (despite popular belief Intel processors are not quite 100% compatible with other Intel processors, but it's close enough that it almost never matters).

Maybe I'm not clear on the definition of compatible. I'm thinking in
terms of the basic instruction set. ( Drivers or programs would test
for the existence of any extensions to the basic instruction set
before using them, presumably. ) It's my understanding that the VIA
chips are missing a basic opcode that is considered optional, but is
implemented by Intel and AMD. Surely there's info on this somewhere
on the net, but I can't find it.

My recommendation, start checking for application incompatibilities (ie the version of JVM your are using not playing well with the version of Opera) and/or driver issues (motherboard, sound card, ethernet, video, etc). Chances are VERY high that it's one of these things that is causing Java to crash.

Well, I've since stripped Winodws and installed Linux so I can't test
that theory right now. But if I get frustrated enough with my
ignorance of Linux ( as I have before ) I may rip it off and reinstall
Windows and put more effort into making it work. I assumed it was at
the proccessor level because of what I had heard and also because I've
had no major problems with a similar installation of Opera and JVM on
an AMD machine running Windows. Also, the crash was so consistent and
deep: mouse frozen, no kbd response, nothing. Unusual even for
Windows. But I suppose mb drivers could do that...

[Tony Hill]

On 6 Jan 2004 08:41:44 -0800, ggs@mesford.com (Mike M) wrote: They are fully compatible, or at least as compatible as Intel processors or AMD processors (despite popular belief Intel processors are not quite 100% compatible with other Intel processors, but it's close enough that it almost never matters).Maybe I'm not clear on the definition of compatible. I'm thinking interms of the basic instruction set. ( Drivers or programs would testfor the existence of any extensions to the basic instruction setbefore using them, presumably. ) It's my understanding that the VIAchips are missing a basic opcode that is considered optional, but isimplemented by Intel and AMD. Surely there's info on this somewhereon the net, but I can't find it.

That's what I was talking about too. VIA includes the entire x86
basic instruction set, just like what AMD and Intel have. Some chips
are faster at certain instructions, some are slower, but they all
support the same basic instruction set. VIA does lack the SSE2
extensions to x86, but then again, so do AMD AthlonXP chips and Intel
PIII chips.

The short answer is that yes, the VIA processors are 100% compatible.


What I meant by Intel chips not being 100% compatible with Intel chips
is that each chip has a few little bugs, or "errata" as they like to
call them. This means that on very rare occasions you can run into a
program that will work on a PIII but not on a P4. These bugs are VERY
small however, and can usually be ignored. It is perhaps interesting
to note though that Intel's list of errata is almost always longer
than that of AMD, though whether that means that AMD is more
Intel-compatible than Intel or simply that Intel does a better job of
documenting their chips is left for the readers to decide. VIA does a
piss-poor job of documenting their chips (and everything else they
make) and their errata sheet is non-existant to the public at least.
My recommendation, start checking for application incompatibilities (ie the version of JVM your are using not playing well with the version of Opera) and/or driver issues (motherboard, sound card, ethernet, video, etc). Chances are VERY high that it's one of these things that is causing Java to crash.Well, I've since stripped Winodws and installed Linux so I can't testthat theory right now. But if I get frustrated enough with myignorance of Linux ( as I have before ) I may rip it off and reinstallWindows and put more effort into making it work. I assumed it was atthe proccessor level because of what I had heard and also because I'vehad no major problems with a similar installation of Opera and JVM onan AMD machine running Windows. Also, the crash was so consistent anddeep: mouse frozen, no kbd response, nothing. Unusual even forWindows. But I suppose mb drivers could do that...

MB drivers could certainly do that. Bad power supplies and bad memory
could do it for sure as well. I've also had 3 separate systems crash
just like that because of problems supplying sufficient power to the
video card.

Problems with the CPU are possible, but highly unlikely in my
experience. I would put that as being WELL down the list of possible
causes for most system crashes, even as far as hardware goes.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca