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Big Requirements Up Front
  #11
Old 10-21-2004, 02:10 AM
Phlip
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Default Big Requirements Up Front

The missing word in my analysis was "decision". I filled in that word by
taking one glimpse at the fractal that is the Poppendieck's writings. Each
small part contains an image of the whole. They said, essentially, "Don't
delay the feedback from a decision".

In that light...

John Roth wrote:
Quote:
There are a number of problems with doing all of the detailed requirements up front.


It turns out that my verbiage was trying to say "we didn't do all the
decisions up front".

So let's analyze these replies in terms of feedback latency from decisions.
Quote:
1. Time spent doing requirements that aren't useful for the first release pushes back the first release. This, in turn, means the project will spend more before beginning to generate revenue (cost savings, whatever). Talk to your local accountant about this. Even better, watch your accountant create a few spreadsheets, generate some graphs, turn white, sprout grey hairs and become an instant convert to the concept.


My verbiage gave the team something else to do. The onsite customer simply
had time to perform market research, and I implied they didn't feel the need
to finish it before the Inception Phase.

The specific problem is that even selecting topics to research represents
decisions.
Quote:
2. Requirements done before the first release don't have the benefit of the learning in the first release. Thus, they run a significant risk of being off target. Repeat for each release.


My verbiage implied the onsite customer treated the research results as a
resource, not a batch of decisions. However, even by making some user story
ideas easier, the research has an effect on decisions.
Quote:
3. [add other stuff] The critical issue here is the "in depth" part. If you take a use case approach, you find that most of the time spent in preparing them is taken up with the scenarios and extensions. If you take Alistar Cockburn's actors and goals model as well as his stakeholders and interests model, you can do use cases incrementally. What you need for a given release is a scenario that advances at least one stakeholder's interests, plus whatever scenarios are needed to protect all stakeholder's interests for the original scenario.


This is indeed the biggest problem. In my scenario, the onsite customer
proceeded beyond simply listing all the competition's features. They began
to deliberately make programming decisions, following a requirements
template, such as use cases.

This analysis has changed my standard verbiage. Relentless testing over
incremental changes enable Agile projects to:

* accept feature requests in any order, at any time
* release any Integration to Quality Control and beyond
* minimize the time between deciding a feature and using it.

I replaced the word "specifying" with "deciding". "Specifying" early is
relatively harmless, as long as you can delay the resulting decision.

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/b...tUserInterfaces


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Big Requirements Up Front
  #12
Old 10-22-2004, 09:09 PM
Phlip
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Default Big Requirements Up Front

Scott Kinney wrote:
Quote:
Maybe, maybe not. You'd need to evaluate the risks of the specific project, and the volatility of the requirements. Believing that all requirements change willy-nilly is as misguided as believing that none of them can. You may actually have understand the specific project at hand to make those assessments.


You keep saying "nobody collects requirements like that".

http://news.com.com/Avis+blames+IT+...ml?tag=nefd.top

When you buy an off-the-shelf ERP package, you endure a requirements phase
committed before the code's authors ever met you.

That might be a reason these things have a reputation for providing little
more than an eternal IntegrationHell...

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/b...tUserInterfaces




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Big Requirements Up Front
  #13
Old 10-24-2004, 10:53 AM
Scott Kinney
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Default Big Requirements Up Front


"Phlip" <phlip_cpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1Iled.22839$Qv5.2784@newssvr33.news.prodigy.c om...
Quote:
Scott Kinney wrote:
Quote:
Maybe, maybe not. You'd need to evaluate the risks of the specific project, and the volatility of the requirements. Believing that all requirements change willy-nilly is as misguided as believing that

none
Quote:
of them can. You may actually have understand the specific project at hand to make those assessments. You keep saying "nobody collects requirements like that".


I suppose what I should say is that neither I nor the 20 or so project
managers I've worked with over the past 18 years manage requirements
like that. Ron continually suggests that I've had an unusual and sheltered
career.

http://news.com.com/Avis+blames+IT+...ml?tag=nefd.top

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there was no mention of a
requirements
process, how requirements were collected, or even *if* requirements were
developed by Avis.
Quote:
When you buy an off-the-shelf ERP package, you endure a requirements phase committed before the code's authors ever met you.

True, but trivial, in that it is also true of any software package one buys
from ERP to Photoshop. If your purchase isn't guided by some notion of
what you need to be able to do, why are you buying it?
Quote:
That might be a reason these things have a reputation for providing little more than an eternal IntegrationHell...


I think there are better reasons. I've seen two basic approaches to
'big software' implementation succeed. There are probably others, but
these are two that I've seen succeed more than once (each.)

1. There are clear, explicit statements of business functionality and
evidence.
"I need to be able to do........" This set of (gasp) requirements drive the
implementation and customization. When the vendor complains that the users
'just don't get' the sheer brilliance of their concept; the users reply that
they
don't give a f*k about the sheer brilliance, they need to be able to do 'x'.
This works well when the user population has a lot of experience in their
business process.

2. The implementation team, being cruel to be kind, implements a very basic,
workmanlike set-up. The users play with it, use it in its current state,
develop
ideas about how to 'grow' the applications, then they jointly embark on an
approach to evolve the system to something more sophisticated. This works
well when the users aren't terribly experienced in the processes embodied in
the
package; and I think ERP tends to fall into this category.


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