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  #1
Old 10-01-2006, 05:43 AM
beamendsltd
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Due entirely to Peter Naulls convincing me that ROS has no future
except as a Linux clone, and therefore making releasing the !Prophet
suppport application I've developed that I bought it for a waste of
time and effort (no doubt he'd tell me it's crap anyway as it's a
native app).

About 3 weeks old, hard disc file tables munged (but can easily
be fixed with DiscKnight over a network - I've only got the 26-bit
version though).

Complete with !Aeumlor, mouse, keyboard and power supply in
original packaging and with "ID" card.

£575.00 inc VAT (VAT recipt provided).

Will consider some sort of deal involving an RPC with 4.02 or >,
or a PC.

Payment by cheque (cleared), plastic or cash - definately no
PayPal! Mail for details.

Courier delivery at cost - £12.50 for most of the UK mainland,
buyer more than welcome to collect.

Richard

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  #2
Old 10-01-2006, 06:46 AM
Peter Naulls
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In message <5dc126f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>
beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
Due entirely to Peter Naulls convincing me that ROS has no future except as a Linux clone,


I've done no such thing, please don't spread such misinformation, or at
least bother to provide references to where you think I made such
claims.
Quote:
and therefore making releasing the !Prophet suppport application I've developed that I bought it for a waste of time and effort (no doubt he'd tell me it's crap anyway as it's a native app).


Why would I possibly do that? It's a logical fallacy to claim that
since I support ported applications that everything native is bad.
Besides, I've not used it, and therefore have no valid opinon on how
good it is, and certainly don't know of any alternatives.

Please keep such hogwash to yourself.

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  #3
Old 10-01-2006, 08:52 AM
druck
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On 1 Oct 2006 beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
About 3 weeks old, hard disc file tables munged (but can easily be fixed with DiscKnight over a network - I've only got the 26-bit version though).


Why? Its is free upgrade to 32bit and all other versions (latest 1.47).

Just enter your serial number and registered email address in the form.

http://www.armclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/dk-update

If you aren't registered send the information to the support email address.

---druck

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  #4
Old 10-01-2006, 09:23 AM
News poster
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In message <5dc126f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>
beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
Due entirely to Peter Naulls convincing me that ROS has no future

<snip in mid-sentence>
Sigh.

Regards
Stan
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  #5
Old 10-01-2006, 10:19 AM
Paul Vigay
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In article <5dc126f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>,
beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
Due entirely to Peter Naulls convincing me that ROS has no future except as a Linux clone, and therefore making releasing the !Prophet suppport application I've developed that I bought it for a waste of time and effort (no doubt he'd tell me it's crap anyway as it's a native app).


That's just silly though!
Seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

And I'd certainly be interested in your Prophet support application -
especially as I run my entire company on it.

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  #6
Old 10-01-2006, 01:39 PM
beamends
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druck wrote:
Quote:
On 1 Oct 2006 beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
About 3 weeks old, hard disc file tables munged (but can easily be fixed with DiscKnight over a network - I've only got the 26-bit version though).
Why? Its is free upgrade to 32bit and all other versions (latest 1.47). Just enter your serial number and registered email address in the form. http://www.armclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/dk-update If you aren't registered send the information to the support email address. ---druck


I mailed, via the site, yourself, to sort it out, but alas it still
doesn't work.
I very much appreciate your effort, but the machine is back in it's box
now.

Cheers
Richard
Quote:
-- The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/ The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/


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  #7
Old 10-01-2006, 02:33 PM
beamends
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Paul Vigay wrote:
Quote:
In article <5dc126f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
Due entirely to Peter Naulls convincing me that ROS has no future except as a Linux clone, and therefore making releasing the !Prophet suppport application I've developed that I bought it for a waste of time and effort (no doubt he'd tell me it's crap anyway as it's a native app).
That's just silly though! Seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.


Well, yes and no. I'm affraid I've just got fed up with any suggestions
that
don't fit in with Peter's agenda being ridiculed - witness the poor
bloke who
wrote the mimemap app. Anyone who professes to have the best ineterests
of the platform at heart who makes statements like "developers know
what
users want better than users" (paraphrased somewhat, but I'm using the
PC
and finding the exact wording is, er - non-trivial) is not someone who
should be
"in charge". He may be right, he may be wrong, about porting, but I
believe
that porting whole apps from Linux is as dangerous to the future of the

platform (i.e. hardware + OS) as emulation (now I've upset everyone!).
Having
got FireFox with the A9 I was finaly able to see it in all it's glory,
and frankly
I was left feeling I might just as well run Linux/Windows and save all
the grief.
I suspect that I have a rather different take on using ROS than most,
as I use it
as a tool to run a business, and while I am a die hard fan, things like
"the
browser" issue I'm utterly uniterested in (Fresco does all I need the
vast
majority of the time), whereas producing an invoice (which is most
likely
of extreme unimportance to 90% of the user base) is everything.

So that I can't be accused of "just moaning" (as everypone who holds
unfashionable opinions seems to be accused of over the last couple of
months),
I was just on the verge of releasing the first of 4 !Prophet related
apps and
have started on Plan 9 (pseudo multi-user thingie for !Prophet), and
also
tracked down S-Base (though it's not clear if it really is available,
prefferebaly
at rather more realistic price) to establlish if it could be the dbase
engine for
an entirely new accounts/stock control system (tame accountant found).

Operating on the asumption that an expected announcement on the 18th of
September won't happen, I'll continue working on those projects, but
they
are for future-poofing my business. I'm not going to waste my time
doing
documentation, 32-bitting etc, so they won't get released.

So, am I cutting off my nose to spite my face? No, but I do seriously
dispair
that big noises in the ROS land are putting far more energy into
scoring
clever sounding points in fruitless, endless, nit picking over some
poor
users use of terminology.

Hence the A9 is for sale, I simply don't need it.
Quote:
And I'd certainly be interested in your Prophet support application - especially as I run my entire company on it.


You are more than welcome to a copy (there's no documentation, plus I'm
doing a run tomorrow night to hopefully make sure he output will
validate
with w3c !), but unless I'm wrong you don't hold stock which needs
putting
on a web site and maintinaing (prices etc), so I don't think you'd find
Stage
I a whole lot of use, the other parts may well be of use, but are
nowhere near a
releaseable stage (hardcoded filenames and that sort of thing).

Quote:
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Richard

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  #8
Old 10-01-2006, 02:40 PM
Sandy Morton
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In article <4e6f1c0353invalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk>,
Paul Vigay <invalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
And I'd certainly be interested in your Prophet support application - especially as I run my entire company on it.


I would like some info. on this if possible?

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  #9
Old 10-01-2006, 03:54 PM
beamends
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Sandy Morton wrote:
Quote:
In article <4e6f1c0353invalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk>, Paul Vigay <invalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
And I'd certainly be interested in your Prophet support application - especially as I run my entire company on it.
I would like some info. on this if possible?


Well, what it achieves can be seen at
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk
once you have clicked on "Store-Man", eveything below that is created
automatically
from a CSV output file from !Prophet - except the "Info" html files,
which are just
copied to the correct loacation by the app.

It uses the supplier 2 field to provide a link to the "Info" files, if
present, and 3 digit codes to are used in supplier 3 to put the part in
the right places (there is an alternative for things like nuts that
appear in many, many places, where a file, also created by the app., is
used to look up multiple locations when the !Prophet field is full, or
in danger of being so. This file also alows alternative descriptions to
be used so the very long descriptions seen for many parts can be done
away with), which also helps keep invoices/purchase orders nice and
tidy.

Where the parts get put on the site is decided by the three digit code,
which is generated by the app from a text file via a menu. These codes
can be "injected" into !Prophet fom the
app to avoid any typo's.

It also uses a code to look up the branding/maufacurer of a part and
puts their logo in the appropriate place (due to a total lack of
artistic ability these are just gif names on the site).

The headers and footers for each page are defined by the user and
pulled in as required by the app, so the BeamEnds bit at the top can be
replaced with anything you like, as can the footer - the app does the
table in the middle. It also provides (dam, need to make that
optional) links for each part to a free on-line shopping trolley &
secure card details collection provider, but only where there is a
price - likewise a TSV file for upload to Froogle is also created.

The page titles are generated automatically from the code input menu,
as are the file names where things are put (they are actually the same,
but with spaces removed), so things can be found easily if only one
price needs changing or something.

The motivation was to create something that could deal with maintaining
correct prices for 23,000 stock items on a web site without having to
spend all day typing, and I got a bit carried away. It curently takes
about 2 hours to process the 23,000 parts on a StrongArm RPC, about
33Mb of data it's very much a batch job app - it used to multi-task
when building the site, but it would lieterally take all day with that
many stock items.

Theres a special code for things you don't want to appear on the site
that are in the !Prophet stock list - temporerily not availbale parts
etc

Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to say all the output will validate at
w3c.

Theres loads of stuff, like automatically using FTP when done to update
the server, picking out special offers, doing automatic trace-throughs
of superceeded parts ("Use ABC1234") etc that may get added. There will
be an option to display the price including VAT, without VAT, or both
since I've noticed the competiton have started listing VAT free prices,
so Googlers see them first.

The other apps are one to read a suppliers CSV file and inject new
prices directly into
!Prophet - with sanity checking and keeping an eye on margins, one to
find a stock number in the purchase order file for dealing with
returns, and one to record stock items bought against a suppliers
invoice number and GI number, again for returns. These are not
releaseable at present.

Richard

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  #10
Old 10-01-2006, 06:49 PM
Peter Naulls
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In message <1159742033.024041.220130@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups. com>
"beamends" <sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
Paul Vigay wrote:
Quote:
In article <5dc126f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
Quote:
Due entirely to Peter Naulls convincing me that ROS has no future except as a Linux clone, and therefore making releasing the !Prophet suppport application I've developed that I bought it for a waste of time and effort (no doubt he'd tell me it's crap anyway as it's a native app).
That's just silly though! Seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.


Here we go, trying to blame all your own failings and RISC OS failings
on me. This from someone who admits to deliberately winding people up
just because. Sadly, much of what you say below is fabricated.
Quote:
Well, yes and no. I'm affraid I've just got fed up with any suggestions that don't fit in with Peter's agenda being ridiculed - witness the poor bloke who wrote the mimemap app.


Hardly. But then, you weren't even interested in the reasoning and the
constructrive critisism given towards that - and the "poor fellow" is
more than able to defend himself. How about solving the problem
properly instead of creating another application to do something very
few people need to do in practice? Maybe I'm assming too much with
respect to your claimed business experience - we ought to be building
pipelines, not making more buckets.
Quote:
Anyone who professes to have the best ineterests of the platform at heart who makes statements like "developers know what users want better than users" (paraphrased somewhat, but I'm using the PC and finding the exact wording is, er - non-trivial)


But sufficiently inaccurate to completely change the meaning. If you're
going to accuse me of something, at least bother to make it true
Quote:
is not someone who should be "in charge".


In charge of what exactly? In charge of understanding precisely what's
required for on going development? Something several other people are
also "in charge" of. Please clairfy.
Quote:
He may be right, he may be wrong, about porting, but I believe that porting whole apps from Linux is as dangerous to the future of the platform


I look forward to you bothering to explain why.
Quote:
(i.e. hardware + OS) as emulation (now I've upset > everyone!). Having > got FireFox with the A9 I was finaly able to see it in all it's glory, and frankly I was left feeling I might just as well run Linux/Windows and save all the grief.


Well, you won't have seen FireFox (sic) in all it's (sic) glory on RISC
OS, since the port clearly is incomplete. What's your point?
Quote:
I suspect that I have a rather different take on using ROS than most, as I use it as a tool to run a business, and while I am a die hard fan, things like "the browser" issue I'm utterly uniterested in


Then it's rather strange that you've taken the time to moan about
browsers on a number of occasions, isn't it?
Quote:
So, am I cutting off my nose to spite my face? No, but I do seriously dispair that big noises in the ROS land are putting far more energy into scoring clever sounding points in fruitless, endless, nit picking over some poor users use of terminology.


So Richard, why _do_ you do it? Moreoever, this is all just a big sob
story because I happened to poke a bunch of holes in your reasoning.
You may as well run to your mum and tell on me.


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