RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNext Informix IDS Rele
I am lost! How can you compare Informix, a database technology, with
artificial intelligence?
The path of your thinking is really strange to me.
Your mail is the same kind of usual rambling, then you divert on AI. This is
how you want to convince than Informix is anemic? Come on! You can surely do
better than that!
Or go comp.lang.prolog...
Quote:
-----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 07:45 To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNext Informix IDS Release... The big question is, what does the conference really buy you in the market? Just because Walmart and a few other companies are keeping the Informix lights on doesn't mean the product has a real future. If you can't build a developer base, all you have is a database engine. Look at all the great technology projects over the years that were the "superior" choice, but nobody cared. Unless Informix differentiates itself in the market with some kind of application that works with the database, it's a big nothing. Just nothing. Try this one in google: Thinking Machines . That one is really amazing. All gone now, great technology, with a great future... bwahahahaaaaaaa! 8-) Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
Quote:
Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have
been
Quote:
doing for the Informix community. Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points. Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as in
early
Quote:
1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's
revenue.
Quote:
But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or anemic
are
Quote:
certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you related
to
Quote:
DE? The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe.
Even
Quote:
IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era. Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-) )
but
Quote:
IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame us
if
Quote:
you will) is not doing ANY money. Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is
manned by
Quote:
volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys,
we'd
Quote:
probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and along
side
Quote:
with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set up
a
Quote:
hands on lab on my systems...). And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract, so
even
Quote:
if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no
income
Quote:
during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not bring
you
Quote:
knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the time spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix
consultant,
Quote:
so I am not even chasing customers there. Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for
volunteers...
Quote:
(and it's not all directed at Malcolm).
Quote:
-----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54 To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas'; informix-list@iiug.org Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,
The
Quote:
Next Informix IDS Release... Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index and pricing according to where the people come from. That would generate a big
market
Quote:
in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the
world.
Quote:
But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago. What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is that
we
Quote:
have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend conferences - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might
have
Quote:
ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of IDS servers single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some
want
Quote:
highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time and money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would like to have lower level presentations. It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at the conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth
seeing
Quote:
figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for proper comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and the average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG
members
Quote:
there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to publish
those
Quote:
figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting the data :-) But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor. I can't persuade the powers that be to let me attend an Informix conference -
but
Quote:
if it was Microsoft.... Regards Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin Sent: 09 October 2006 12:22 To: Davorin Kremenjas; informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand
2006,The
Quote:
Next Informix IDS Release... I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a
system
Quote:
like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100?
Belgium
Quote:
80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them move)... Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than DB2,
so
Quote:
should we price proportionnally? IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose
some
Quote:
changes to IDUG. jgp On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote> "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message> news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org...>> John,>> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay.>> It's>> just>> that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like>> but>> I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK.> Exactly.> I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would> cause much less confusion.>> _______________________________________________> Informix-list mailing list> Informix-list@iiug.org> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list -- jgp _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.orghttp://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-
Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformix IDS Release.
Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
Quote:
I am lost! How can you compare Informix, a database technology, with artificial intelligence?
I had actually been lulled into thinking that you were capable of thinking outside the Informix box. But I see that I am indeed wrong. On this I am sure.
Thinking Machines ( the company ) was carved up and split off between Sun and Oracle. God only knows what they did with the parts, but the point, obviously lost on you, was that this was great technology that simply did not make it in its present form.
Informix, great technology, but for whatever reason will not make it--at least in its present form. The Connection Machines developed by Thinking Machines where way ahead of their time, just like Informix.
DB2 is now enjoying the fruits of Informix labor, and Informix to some degree is enjoying some of the technology from DB2, such as better buffer pool management. But IBM knows they can get most of their sales from 20% of the Informix base, thusly this is why they don't give a rats ass about marketing it. As it dies a slow and tragic death, IBM will simply continue to offer DB2 like a robot offering tea.
Quote:
The path of your thinking is really strange to me.
It's early for you. When you get 5-10 years away from actually using Informix it will become easier for you. This will soon be possible when Informix slides off into the abyss.
Quote:
Your mail is the same kind of usual rambling, then you divert on AI. This is how you want to convince than Informix is anemic? Come on! You can surely do better than that!
I appreciate your challenge. Like you I persist here in c.d.i, for apparently no other reason than the pointless, hopeless hope that there is a twinkle of intelligence at IBM that is reading here, and will wake up and Informix will start to be marketed and really advertised. In my misguided zeal, I somehow think that somebody will resurrect this product and really make it fly. But deep down inside I know it's a lost cause. Probably the same kind of problem people have with quitting smoking, it's difficult.
Quote:
Or go comp.lang.prolog...
Quote:
-----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 07:45 To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNext Informix IDS Release... The big question is, what does the conference really buy you in the market? Just because Walmart and a few other companies are keeping the Informix lights on doesn't mean the product has a real future. If you can't build a developer base, all you have is a database engine. Look at all the great technology projects over the years that were the "superior" choice, but nobody cared. Unless Informix differentiates itself in the market with some kind of application that works with the database, it's a big nothing. Just nothing. Try this one in google: Thinking Machines . That one is really amazing. All gone now, great technology, with a great future... bwahahahaaaaaaa! 8-) Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
Quote:
Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have
been
Quote:
doing for the Informix community. Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points. Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as in
early
Quote:
1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's
revenue.
Quote:
But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or anemic
are
Quote:
certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you related
to
Quote:
DE? The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe.
Even
Quote:
IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era. Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-) )
but
Quote:
IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame us
if
Quote:
you will) is not doing ANY money. Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is
manned by
Quote:
volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys,
we'd
Quote:
probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and along
side
Quote:
with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set up
a
Quote:
hands on lab on my systems...). And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract, so
even
Quote:
if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no
income
Quote:
during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not bring
you
Quote:
knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the time spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix
consultant,
Quote:
so I am not even chasing customers there. Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for
volunteers...
Quote:
(and it's not all directed at Malcolm).> -----Original Message-----> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54> To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas'; informix-list@iiug.org> Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,
The
Quote:
> Next Informix IDS Release...>> Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index and> pricing> according to where the people come from. That would generate a big
market
Quote:
> in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the
world.
Quote:
> But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a> membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago.>> What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is that
we
Quote:
> have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend> conferences> - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might
have
Quote:
> ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of IDS> servers> single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some
want
Quote:
> highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time and> money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would like to> have> lower level presentations.>> It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at the> conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth
seeing
Quote:
> figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for proper> comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and the> average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG
members
Quote:
> there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to publish
those
Quote:
> figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting the> data> :-)>> But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor. I> can't> persuade the powers that be to let me attend an Informix conference -
but
Quote:
> if> it was Microsoft....>> Regards>> Malcolm>> -----Original Message-----> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-> bounces@iiug.org]> On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin> Sent: 09 October 2006 12:22> To: Davorin Kremenjas; informix-list@iiug.org> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand
2006,The
Quote:
> Next Informix IDS Release...>>>> I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a
system
Quote:
> like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100?
Belgium
Quote:
> 80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them move)...>> Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than DB2,
so
Quote:
> should we price proportionnally?>> IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose
some
Quote:
> changes to IDUG.>> jgp>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote>> "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message>> news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org...>>> John,>>> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay.>>> It's>>> just>>> that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are> like>>> but>>> I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK.>> Exactly.>> I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would>> cause much less confusion.>>>> _______________________________________________>> Informix-list mailing list>> Informix-list@iiug.org>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list> --> jgp>> _______________________________________________> Informix-list mailing list> Informix-list@iiug.orghttp://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-
Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNextInformix IDS Release..
Double Echo said:
Quote:
DB2 is now enjoying the fruits of Informix labor, and Informix to some degree is enjoying some of the technology from DB2, such as better buffer pool management.
I'd suggest "different" rather than "better", perhaps.
Quote:
But IBM knows they can get most of their sales from 20% of the Informix base, thusly this is why they don't give a rats ass about marketing it. As it dies a slow and tragic death, IBM will simply continue to offer DB2 like a robot offering tea.
Actually, that's not entirely the problem. Well, not in the UK. IBM
doesn't seem to do ANY product marketing in the UK, as far as I can tell.
I mean, I don't read every single possible publication or anything, but
just going by their TV advertising, I think their marketing department has
ingested the entire cocaine production from Columbia for the last five
years. The advert is one of these fluffy, content-free, feel-good things
with the tagline "What makes you special?", to which I always reply, in a
mong-like voice, "My needs". Farking idiots.
ANYWAY, the point of it all is that the only thing IBM sees fit to market
is IBM as a whole or the various brands at a very vague and amorphous
level. Hence, DB2 advertising (if it still exists) will not actually tell
you anything about DB2, just that such a thing exists. However, I suspect
that if you did find any IBM data management adverts, they would probably
say nothing much at all other than "IBM sells some kinds of data
management stuff".
To a certain extent, I can almost sympathise with their problem, which is
basically: "how the f*ck do you professionally and intelligently market
20,000 different pieces of software?"
Things may have been different for DB2 in the days of Janet Perna who had
skin in the DB2 game and had her own emotional reasons for marketing and
selling DB2 *as a product* but there is no-one that high up in the brand
with any skin in the game, it now becomes standard amorphous IBM
marketing.
The upside for IDS is that the new guy seems to be thinking only with his
wallet, and that means that if enough users get together and gang up on
him and say, very clearly, that marketing IDS distinctly will lead to
revenue gains, you may well get your wish.
Quote:
I appreciate your challenge. Like you I persist here in c.d.i, for apparently no other reason than the pointless, hopeless hope that there is a twinkle of intelligence at IBM that is reading here, and will wake up and Informix will start to be marketed and really advertised.
See above.
--
Bye now,
Obnoxio
"... no bill is required as no value was provided."
-- Christine Normile
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformixIDS Release..
Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
Quote:
The upside for IDS is that the new guy seems to be thinking only with his wallet, and that means that if enough users get together and gang up on him and say, very clearly, that marketing IDS distinctly will lead to revenue gains, you may well get your wish.
The product should be renamed. I was thinking Phoenix, since the product
has risen from the ashes so many times. It would get to keep the "ix" for
sentimentality. But seriously this dog needs a new name, and a new image.
Informix is a name that is synonymous with "loser".
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RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNext Informix IDS Rele
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