RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNextInformix IDS Relea
Mark, once more, you are being nice to me. I am not looking after a
presidential seat on IIUG. I don't expect to be there, thus it would've been
fun to be the first "extranjero" (read non US) to be there. No big deal. I
plan to run again and with your support, be reelected.
But I like the engine. I am not an engine guy and all should know that by
now ;-). It is funny when John Miller and I talk, I love his passion for
"under the hood", same for Mark, I am just a superficial man, trying to
connect my apps to it...
Yes, we need volunteers. We need fresh blood, even if that means I fall into
wilderness...
Quote:
-----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of mark.scranton@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 19:27 To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNextInformix IDS Release... I remember back in the 80's...i bought the book about the Connection Machine architecture. Yes - it was way ahead of it's time. And yes (I hate to admit), I agree with DE - the technology was lost amongst the technologists...it had nothing to do with how good it was. Much like us. Some points: 1. it's not a technology battle - never has been. Has very little to do with the problem right now. If it were a technology battle, we'd all be driving Subaru's or Toyota's, not GM cars. (I come from a GM family, so I can say that without regret). 2. Don't wait on IBM with respect to Informix. Stay focused on what you can do to continue it's life. I believe we have quite a few years ahead of Informix work - not so much new clients, but within a loyal installed base. Sad, but true. 3. IDS 10.5 will bring some great features - many of you will hear about them next week at conference. Pat folks like John, Johnathon and Madison on the back for staying the course. 4. I have been very busy - almost 100% of the time - with Informix clients since joining Xtivia. And I'm not the only one - others on the staff as well. 5. One of the best contributions the tech crowds can make is to publish articles about how the Informix product helps your site, is easy to...whatever. Many will say "I don't have time..." - apparently a few of us have "enough time" to post here endlessly. Take that time and energy and route it into an article or paper from a technical point-of-view. Helps to start a buzz. (And please - no more articles that say "I was writing 4GL in 1983...."). Volunteer to help the IIUG as JGP has stated. It's time for some new blood there. I certainly would hope we have a changing of the guard to get some new inputs and fresh perspectives. I see JGP as a candidate for the next Prez, but that's just me. He still has the enthusiasm and energy needed there - and he is connected to the client base in numerous ways. This is important. Thanks - Mark Scranton Informix 1995-2006 Sebastian, Norma J. wrote:
Quote:
And here I thought there was some momentum building that we could leverage and sell fist-fight tickets at conference..... oh the potential ! don't mean to be overly asinine or humorous..... I have been doing informix stuff (4gl, db, etc) for 15 years and I love it, but I have 20-odd years to go in IT........ I have seen the light and it's called sqlserver2005. that'll be the bat that hits oracle with force. -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:58 AM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformix IDS Release... Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
Quote:
I am lost! How can you compare Informix, a database technology, with artificial intelligence?
I had actually been lulled into thinking that you were capable of thinking outside the Informix box. But I see that I am indeed wrong. On this I am sure. Thinking Machines ( the company ) was carved up and split off between Sun and Oracle. God only knows what they did with the parts, but the point, obviously lost on you, was that this was great technology that simply did not make it in its present form. Informix, great technology, but for whatever reason will not make it--at least in its present form. The Connection Machines developed by Thinking Machines where way ahead of their time, just like Informix. DB2 is now enjoying the fruits of Informix labor, and Informix to some degree is enjoying some of the technology from DB2, such as better buffer pool management. But IBM knows they can get most of their sales from 20% of the Informix base, thusly this is why they don't give a rats ass about marketing it. As it dies a slow and tragic death, IBM will simply continue to offer DB2 like a robot offering tea.
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The path of your thinking is really strange to me.
It's early for you. When you get 5-10 years away from actually using Informix it will become easier for you. This will soon be possible when Informix slides off into the abyss.
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Your mail is the same kind of usual rambling, then you divert on AI.
This is
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how you want to convince than Informix is anemic? Come on! You can
surely do
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better than that!
I appreciate your challenge. Like you I persist here in c.d.i, for apparently no other reason than the pointless, hopeless hope that there is a twinkle of intelligence at IBM that is reading here, and will wake up and Informix will start to be marketed and really advertised. In my misguided zeal, I somehow think that somebody will resurrect this product and really make it fly. But deep down inside I know it's a lost cause. Probably the same kind of problem people have with quitting smoking, it's difficult.
Quote:
Or go comp.lang.prolog...> -----Original Message-----> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 07:45> To: informix-list@iiug.org> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,> TheNext Informix IDS Release...>> The big question is, what does the conference really buy you in the> market?>> Just because Walmart and a few other companies are keeping the
Informix
Quote:
> lights> on doesn't mean the product has a real future. If you can't build a> developer> base, all you have is a database engine. Look at all the great
technology
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> projects over the years that were the "superior" choice, but nobody
cared.
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> Unless Informix differentiates itself in the market with some kind of> application> that works with the database, it's a big nothing. Just nothing.>> Try this one in google: Thinking Machines . That one is really
amazing.
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> All> gone now, great technology, with a great future... bwahahahaaaaaaa!
8-)
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>>> Jean Georges Perrin wrote:>> Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have> been>> doing for the Informix community.>>>> Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points.>>>> Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as
in
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> early>> 1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's> revenue.>> But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or
anemic
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> are>> certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you
related
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> to>> DE?>>>> The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe.> Even>> IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era.>>>> Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-)
)
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> but>> IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame
us
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> if>> you will) is not doing ANY money.>>>> Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is> manned by>> volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys,> we'd>> probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and
along
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> side>> with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set
up
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> a>> hands on lab on my systems...).>>>> And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract,
so
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> even>> if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no> income>> during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not
bring
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> you>> knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the
time
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>> spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix> consultant,>> so I am not even chasing customers there.>>>> Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for> volunteers...>> (and it's not all directed at Malcolm).>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list->>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans>>> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54>>> To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas';
>>> Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand
2006,
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> The>>> Next Informix IDS Release...>>>>>> Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index
and
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>>> pricing>>> according to where the people come from. That would generate a big> market>>> in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the> world.>>> But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a>>> membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago.>>>>>> What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is
that
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> we>>> have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend>>> conferences>>> - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might> have>>> ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of
IDS
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>>> servers>>> single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some> want>>> highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time
and
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>>> money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would
like to
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>>> have>>> lower level presentations.>>>>>> It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at
the
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>>> conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth> seeing>>> figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for
proper
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>>> comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and
the
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>>> average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG> members>>> there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to
publish
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> those>>> figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting
the
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>>> data>>> :-)>>>>>> But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor.
I
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>>> can't>>> persuade the powers that be to let me attend an Informix conference
-
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> but>>> if>>> it was Microsoft....>>>>>> Regards>>>>>> Malcolm>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list->>> bounces@iiug.org]>>> On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin>>> Sent: 09 October 2006 12:22>>> To: Davorin Kremenjas; informix-list@iiug.org>>> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand> 2006,The>>> Next Informix IDS Release...>>>>>>>>>>>> I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a> system>>> like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100?> Belgium>>> 80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them
move)...
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>>>>>> Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than
DB2,
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> so>>> should we price proportionnally?>>>>>> IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose> some>>> changes to IDUG.>>>>>> jgp>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote>>>> "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message>>>> news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org...>>>>> John,>>>>> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay.>>>>> It's>>>>> just>>>>> that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries
are
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>>> like>>>>> but>>>>> I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK.>>>> Exactly.>>>> I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would>>>> cause much less confusion.>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Informix-list mailing list>>>> Informix-list@iiug.org>>>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list>>> -->>> jgp>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> Informix-list mailing list>>> Informix-list@iiug.org
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Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformixIDS Release..
Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
Quote:
Mark, once more, you are being nice to me. I am not looking after a presidential seat on IIUG. I don't expect to be there, thus it would've been fun to be the first "extranjero" (read non US) to be there. No big deal. I plan to run again and with your support, be reelected. But I like the engine. I am not an engine guy and all should know that by now ;-). It is funny when John Miller and I talk, I love his passion for "under the hood", same for Mark, I am just a superficial man, trying to connect my apps to it... Yes, we need volunteers. We need fresh blood, even if that means I fall into wilderness...
Unless there is some kind of serious developer program that creates some kind of _serious_ interest in the product you won't ever get "fresh blood". You have a dwindling base that really cares, and no proof that Informix will ever be anything beyond what it is today. There is no buzz no nothing. Informix is a loser, a nothing, that's the reality. None of the kids I work with ever heard of it, and won't hear about unless there is advertising, marketing, and a serious reason to use and develop applications with that database engine. Applications drive databases, not the other way around. Developers build applications. Developers have to make a choice whether to develop in something that has a future, and Informix doesn't offer that choice.
Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNextInformix IDS Release..
>> Mark, once more, you are being nice to me. I am not looking after a
Quote:
presidential seat on IIUG. I don't expect to be there, thus it would've been fun to be the first "extranjero" (read non US) to be there. No big deal. I plan to run again and with your support, be reelected.>> But I like the engine. I am not an engine guy and all should know that by now ;-). It is funny when John Miller and I talk, I love his passion for "under the hood", same for Mark, I am just a superficial man, trying to connect my apps to it... Yes, we need volunteers. We need fresh blood, even if that means I fall into wilderness... Unless there is some kind of serious developer program that creates some kind of _serious_ interest in the product you won't ever get "fresh blood".
Dude! We *KNOW* this is how you feel. Horse-Dead-Beaten!
Quote:
You have a dwindling base that really cares, and no proof that Informix will ever be anything beyond what it is today. There is no buzz no nothing. Informix is a loser, a nothing, that's the reality. None of the kids I work with ever heard of it, and won't hear about unless there is advertising, marketing, and a serious reason to use and develop applications with that database engine.
Does it ever occur to you, even for one second, that your experience
is an ancedote - not data. Because Informix has a new release coming
out. We are an Informix user (which means we are still USING Informix
which you continue to repeat you are *NOT*) and we have NO PROBLEM
finding Informix support OR applications that support (or even
recommend) Informix. Sure as hell looks like life to me. Maybe it
doesn't have the numbers of SQL Server 2005 or hOracle, but guess
what? Lots and lots and lots of products that aren't #1, #2, or even
#3, in their niche survive just fine. M$-Word has like 95% of the
word processing market? Does that mean you can't find another word
processor to buy? Nope, there are least a dozen of them. Probably
will continue to be dozens of them.
Quote:
Applications drive databases, not the other way around. Developers build applications. Developers have to make a choice whether to develop in something that has a future, and Informix doesn't offer that choice.
I know developers writing serious apps that work with Informix -
because the performance is better, the price is lower, and the
administration easier. I guess I should forward all your e-mail to
them so they will realize how foolish they are.
Will Informix be a historical foot note someday? Of course; just
like IPX, LAT, SNA, LISP, CP/M, and myriads of others. So take
comfort that, yes, you will be right someday.
Mark, once more, you are being nice to me. I am not looking after a presidential seat on IIUG. I don't expect to be there, thus it would've been fun to be the first "extranjero" (read non US) to be there. No big deal. I plan to run again and with your support, be reelected.>> But I like the engine. I am not an engine guy and all should know that by now ;-). It is funny when John Miller and I talk, I love his passion for "under the hood", same for Mark, I am just a superficial man, trying to connect my apps to it... Yes, we need volunteers. We need fresh blood, even if that means I fall into wilderness... Unless there is some kind of serious developer program that creates some kind of _serious_ interest in the product you won't ever get "fresh blood". Dude! We *KNOW* this is how you feel. Horse-Dead-Beaten!
It's not about how I "feel", it's about reality friend.
Quote:
You have a dwindling base that really cares, and no proof that Informix will ever be anything beyond what it is today. There is no buzz no nothing. Informix is a loser, a nothing, that's the reality. None of the kids I work with ever heard of it, and won't hear about unless there is advertising, marketing, and a serious reason to use and develop applications with that database engine. Does it ever occur to you, even for one second, that your experience is an ancedote - not data.
I would love for you to show me the money.
Quote:
Because Informix has a new release coming out. We are an Informix user (which means we are still USING Informix which you continue to repeat you are *NOT*) and we have NO PROBLEM finding Informix support OR applications that support (or even recommend) Informix. Sure as hell looks like life to me. Maybe it doesn't have the numbers of SQL Server 2005 or hOracle, but guess what? Lots and lots and lots of products that aren't #1, #2, or even #3, in their niche survive just fine. M$-Word has like 95% of the word processing market? Does that mean you can't find another word processor to buy? Nope, there are least a dozen of them. Probably will continue to be dozens of them.
OK. So. Did it ever occur to you how fucking nothing the developer program(s) are for Informix people? It's pathetic. Go seek another product that has developers and you'll see product moving and selling. You understand why, the company has a developer program that not only attracted the developer, they made that conscious, sub-millisecond decision to suddenly pay attention to the product, download it, install it, and then get lathered up enough to develop an application with it.
This is why I speak what I speak and continue to drive home the fact of how fucking futile it is to release a product without a fucking strategy for its fucking success. It's a big fucking nothing right now. It ain't fucking enough to power a fucking flashlight.
Let me illustrate my point, going over-the-fucking-top as usual:
Informix Marketing Commercial: "The Reality Of No Developer Program"
<fade in>
Our scene opens in the suburban jungle of <pick-your-urbanity> where Mr Smith is going through his morning routine to head to work, and suddenly, he gets a knock at the door.
Knock Knock Knock!
Mr. Smith: Who's there?
Delivery Man: "Delivery service... We're here to drop off your engine.".
Mr. Smith: What engine?
Delivery Man: "From Mercedes... it's some kind of 12-cylinder monster...we got it on a pallet...need your signature to accept it...".
Mr. Smith: Coming! <walks to door and opens front door>
Delivery Man: "It's right here... <hands Mr Smith the delivery receipt>
Mr. Smith: I see... you're delivering me an engine..... what am I supposed to do with it exactly?
Delivery Man: "Hell if I know, I just deliver product I... have no idea or uh, well, you know, I don't know anything about it.
Mr. Smith: Well, I don't know either... I'm sorry... I can't accept it...
<walks back, closes door>
<delivery man stands there with dick in hand>
<fade to black>
<titles The End />
Quote:
Applications drive databases, not the other way around. Developers build applications. Developers have to make a choice whether to develop in something that has a future, and Informix doesn't offer that choice. I know developers writing serious apps that work with Informix - because the performance is better, the price is lower, and the administration easier. I guess I should forward all your e-mail to them so they will realize how foolish they are.
Dude I'm on _your_ team, not the enemy. I can't help but notice how well
Oracle and Microsoft are doing, and how they value their developers. I must
somehow be missing the incredible momentum the Informix Developer program is
doing, I don't see the ads and I don't hear anything in the trades. So maybe
you can show me.
Quote:
Will Informix be a historical foot note someday? Of course; just like IPX, LAT, SNA, LISP, CP/M, and myriads of others. So take comfort that, yes, you will be right someday.
Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformix IDS Release.
dude...
It's like I suggested many, many months ago to you - if you have LOTS
of ideas for changing things, join IBM and try to make a change. Your
ramblings and "the longer it gets the filthier it is" approach only
alienates folks and makes people wonder about "these folks that say
they're dedicated to Informix."
If you wanna be "on this team", statements like "..it can't even power
a flashlight" are just, well, ridiculous.
WHY do you keep beating the "IBM dead horse"? Do you really think that
is going to change? Are you kidding - of course not. I was there. We
tried to get IBM to offer a "free IDS" (for the developer community),
but this idea was beaten down over the potential loss of a few million
$$$ and politics - with no regard to the fact that DB2 has a free
offereing of course. So why do you repeat yourself (repeat yourself
(repeat yourself)) and have a cow over what IBM is not doing? Wasted
energy as I see it.
But there IS a loyal group of "us" that are continuing to work on the
product - 100% of the time - and are doing creative things like:
1) joining the beta program for 10.5 to find out more about the new
features coming out
2) like offering papers and presentations at conferences to help
further educate the community that still needs to know the technical
aspects of the product since they still use it in house....
3) writing tech articles for trade rags to give visibility to the
product, and it's strengths.
4) find employment with a company that has a great handle on alot of
the Informix consulting opportunities out there.
5) Look up every nook and cranny (this one should be fun for OTC to
respond to I'm sure!) for opportunities for spreading the product and
it's presence - when onsite, traveling, and speaking to clients.
Am I disappointed by what HAS happened? Well of course. I was going to
retire at Informix, and enjoy the income from the stock. What happened
is TRAGIC. But statements and rantings like yours does NOTHING to
further the cause.
Get involved with some of the stuff I detailed above. Run for the IIUG
board. Write some papers. Take 1/3 of the time spent on here...and use
it to make a contribution.
> Mark, once more, you are being nice to me. I am not looking after a> presidential seat on IIUG. I don't expect to be there, thus it> would've been> fun to be the first "extranjero" (read non US) to be there. No big> deal. I> plan to run again and with your support, be reelected.>>> But I like the engine. I am not an engine guy and all should know> that by> now ;-). It is funny when John Miller and I talk, I love his passion for> "under the hood", same for Mark, I am just a superficial man, trying to> connect my apps to it...> Yes, we need volunteers. We need fresh blood, even if that means I> fall into> wilderness... Unless there is some kind of serious developer program that creates some kind of _serious_ interest in the product you won't ever get "fresh blood". Dude! We *KNOW* this is how you feel. Horse-Dead-Beaten!
It's not about how I "feel", it's about reality friend.
Quote:
You have a dwindling base that really cares, and no proof that Informix will ever be anything beyond what it is today. There is no buzz no nothing. Informix is a loser, a nothing, that's the reality. None of the kids I work with ever heard of it, and won't hear about unless there is advertising, marketing, and a serious reason to use and develop applications with that database engine. Does it ever occur to you, even for one second, that your experience is an ancedote - not data.
I would love for you to show me the money.
Quote:
Because Informix has a new release coming out. We are an Informix user (which means we are still USING Informix which you continue to repeat you are *NOT*) and we have NO PROBLEM finding Informix support OR applications that support (or even recommend) Informix. Sure as hell looks like life to me. Maybe it doesn't have the numbers of SQL Server 2005 or hOracle, but guess what? Lots and lots and lots of products that aren't #1, #2, or even #3, in their niche survive just fine. M$-Word has like 95% of the word processing market? Does that mean you can't find another word processor to buy? Nope, there are least a dozen of them. Probably will continue to be dozens of them.
OK. So. Did it ever occur to you how fucking nothing the developer program(s) are for Informix people? It's pathetic. Go seek another product that has developers and you'll see product moving and selling. You understand why, the company has a developer program that not only attracted the developer, they made that conscious, sub-millisecond decision to suddenly pay attention to the product, download it, install it, and then get lathered up enough to develop an application with it. This is why I speak what I speak and continue to drive home the fact of how fucking futile it is to release a product without a fucking strategy for its fucking success. It's a big fucking nothing right now. It ain't fucking enough to power a fucking flashlight. Let me illustrate my point, going over-the-fucking-top as usual: Informix Marketing Commercial: "The Reality Of No Developer Program" <fade in> Our scene opens in the suburban jungle of <pick-your-urbanity> where Mr Smith is going through his morning routine to head to work, and suddenly, he gets a knock at the door. Knock Knock Knock! Mr. Smith: Who's there? Delivery Man: "Delivery service... We're here to drop off your engine.". Mr. Smith: What engine? Delivery Man: "From Mercedes... it's some kind of 12-cylinder monster...we got it on a pallet...need your signature to accept it...". Mr. Smith: Coming! <walks to door and opens front door> Delivery Man: "It's right here... <hands Mr Smith the delivery receipt> Mr. Smith: I see... you're delivering me an engine..... what am I supposed to do with it exactly? Delivery Man: "Hell if I know, I just deliver product I... have no idea or uh, well, you know, I don't know anything about it. Mr. Smith: Well, I don't know either... I'm sorry... I can't accept it... <walks back, closes door> <delivery man stands there with dick in hand> <fade to black> <titles The End />
Quote:
Applications drive databases, not the other way around. Developers build applications. Developers have to make a choice whether to develop in something that has a future, and Informix doesn't offer that choice. I know developers writing serious apps that work with Informix - because the performance is better, the price is lower, and the administration easier. I guess I should forward all your e-mail to them so they will realize how foolish they are.
Dude I'm on _your_ team, not the enemy. I can't help but notice how well Oracle and Microsoft are doing, and how they value their developers. I must somehow be missing the incredible momentum the Informix Developer program is doing, I don't see the ads and I don't hear anything in the trades. So maybe you can show me.
Quote:
Will Informix be a historical foot note someday? Of course; just like IPX, LAT, SNA, LISP, CP/M, and myriads of others. So take comfort that, yes, you will be right someday.
Sooner than later. :-)
Guest
Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformixIDS Release..
dude... It's like I suggested many, many months ago to you - if you have LOTS of ideas for changing things, join IBM and try to make a change. Your ramblings and "the longer it gets the filthier it is" approach only alienates folks and makes people wonder about "these folks that say they're dedicated to Informix."
Where's the download for the uncrippled version?
Quote:
If you wanna be "on this team", statements like "..it can't even power a flashlight" are just, well, ridiculous.
Sad isn't it. It wouldn't take much to pump up the wattage on this puppy.
Quote:
WHY do you keep beating the "IBM dead horse"? Do you really think that is going to change? Are you kidding - of course not. I was there. We tried to get IBM to offer a "free IDS" (for the developer community), but this idea was beaten down over the potential loss of a few million $$$ and politics - with no regard to the fact that DB2 has a free offereing of course. So why do you repeat yourself (repeat yourself (repeat yourself)) and have a cow over what IBM is not doing? Wasted energy as I see it.
Well, it may be wasted to YOU, but what I find interesting is how "less
from the vendor" is suddenly acceptable. I am curious why Oracles' model
or Microsoft's' model produces huge sales for them, and how IBM, in most
if not all situations produces a bunch of nothing in comparison. I am
curious why my younger co-workers don't even know what Informix is.
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But there IS a loyal group of "us" that are continuing to work on the product - 100% of the time - and are doing creative things like: 1) joining the beta program for 10.5 to find out more about the new features coming out
I don't want to join anything, I just want the download. I'll give
up a certain amount of my personal info for IDS just like I did for DB2 or MySQL
or Sybase or Oracle. I want to tinker with it, and see if it's worth
spending my time on it, so I can find monetary gain from using and
running the software. I'll scope the job sites to see if there's anybody
using it and how much experience they want, and if it pays decent money
to manage it or develop apps with it.
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2) like offering papers and presentations at conferences to help further educate the community that still needs to know the technical aspects of the product since they still use it in house....
What good is the technology if there is no application to demonstrate
the big "WHY" to Informix. WHY WHY WHY should I develop applications
for Informix? Who cares about the engine if it doesn't have something
compelling that makes it worth my time to develop applications?
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3) writing tech ar
ticles for trade rags to give visibility to the
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product, and it's strengths. 4) find employment with a company that has a great handle on alot of the Informix consulting opportunities out there.
Bwhahahahaahahahaaaaa! That's good! Made me laugh. I don't want to
work for Walmart.
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5) Look up every nook and cranny (this one should be fun for OTC to respond to I'm sure!) for opportunities for spreading the product and it's presence - when onsite, traveling, and speaking to clients.
Uh huh. Why? What's in it for me?
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Am I disappointed by what HAS happened? Well of course. I was going to retire at Informix, and enjoy the income from the stock. What happened is TRAGIC. But statements and rantings like yours does NOTHING to further the cause.
What cause?
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Get involved with some of the stuff I detailed above. Run for the IIUG board. Write some papers. Take 1/3 of the time spent on here...and use it to make a contribution.
IIUG? Certainly you've got to be kidding. Write papers? Sure. In exchange for money. Anyway...I want a non-crippled version of the engine. Show me something I get in exchange for getting involved in a product that nobody but Walmart knows about. Tit for tat. Quid Pro Quo. There has to be an offer from the vendor that compels me or my young friends to use it, develop their apps with, etc etc etc.
dude... It's like I suggested many, many months ago to you - if you have LOTS of ideas for changing things, join IBM and try to make a change. Your ramblings and "the longer it gets the filthier it is" approach only alienates folks and makes people wonder about "these folks that say they're dedicated to Informix."
Where's the download for the uncrippled version?
IF it can't power a flashlight, why would you want it at all?
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If you wanna be "on this team", statements like "..it can't even power a flashlight" are just, well, ridiculous.
Sad isn't it. It wouldn't take much to pump up the wattage on this puppy.
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WHY do you keep beating the "IBM dead horse"? Do you really think that is going to change? Are you kidding - of course not. I was there. We tried to get IBM to offer a "free IDS" (for the developer community), but this idea was beaten down over the potential loss of a few million $$$ and politics - with no regard to the fact that DB2 has a free offereing of course. So why do you repeat yourself (repeat yourself (repeat yourself)) and have a cow over what IBM is not doing? Wasted energy as I see it.
Well, it may be wasted to YOU, but what I find interesting is how "less from the vendor" is suddenly acceptable. I am curious why Oracles' model or Microsoft's' model produces huge sales for them, and how IBM, in most if not all situations produces a bunch of nothing in comparison. I am curious why my younger co-workers don't even know what Informix is.
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But there IS a loyal group of "us" that are continuing to work on the product - 100% of the time - and are doing creative things like: 1) joining the beta program for 10.5 to find out more about the new features coming out
OK - don't join the program that would give you the opportunity to
redirect your opinions to the source - IBM. Just keep rambling here.
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I don't want to join anything, I just want the download. I'll give up a certain amount of my personal info for IDS just like I did for DB2 or MySQL or Sybase or Oracle. I want to tinker with it, and see if it's worth spending my time on it, so I can find monetary gain from using and running the software. I'll scope the job sites to see if there's anybody using it and how much experience they want, and if it pays decent money to manage it or develop apps with it.
Again - why would you want to "tinker with it"? You already said it
wouldn't power a flashlight.
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2) like offering papers and presentations at conferences to help further educate the community that still needs to know the technical aspects of the product since they still use it in house....
What good is the technology if there is no application to demonstrate the big "WHY" to Informix. WHY WHY WHY should I develop applications for Informix? Who cares about the engine if it doesn't have something compelling that makes it worth my time to develop applications?
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3) writing tech ar
ticles for trade rags to give visibility to the
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product, and it's strengths. 4) find employment with a company that has a great handle on alot of the Informix consulting opportunities out there.
Bwhahahahaahahahaaaaa! That's good! Made me laugh. I don't want to work for Walmart.
I've been consulting and teaching on Informix since 1995. I have taught
- count'em - ONE class at Walmart. And that was back in 1996/7. That's
it - 1. Never mind that large clients like, uh, Verizon, Home Depot,
Sears, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Choice Hotels, Pegasus, US Courts,
Associated Foods, Hewitt, Vital/TSYS (and their 28TB engine by year
end!), Hilton, Marriott, S1, and others. I've been to those sites
multiple times over the past 13 years....hmmm? There ARE some other
customers than Wal-Mart...what say you now?
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5) Look up every nook and cranny (this one should be fun for OTC to respond to I'm sure!) for opportunities for spreading the product and it's presence - when onsite, traveling, and speaking to clients.
Uh huh. Why? What's in it for me?
Uh....nothing. Cause you'll never be happy.
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Am I disappointed by what HAS happened? Well of course. I was going to retire at Informix, and enjoy the income from the stock. What happened is TRAGIC. But statements and rantings like yours does NOTHING to further the cause.
What cause?
Quote:
Get involved with some of the stuff I detailed above. Run for the IIUG board. Write some papers. Take 1/3 of the time spent on here...and use it to make a contribution.
IIUG? Certainly you've got to be kidding. Write papers? Sure. In exchange for money. Anyway...I want a non-crippled version of the engine. Show me something I get in exchange for getting involved in a product that nobody but Walmart knows about. Tit for tat. Quid Pro Quo. There has to be an offer from the vendor that compels me or my young friends to use it, develop their apps with, etc etc etc.
And here is the real kicker....YOU could have been writing papers SINCE
the acquisition FOR MONEY! Yes - for MONEY. It's called
"Developerworks", and many, many clients have contributed AND been paid
for their efforts. But no - you decide to write here..FOR NO MONEY.
What say you to this?
I've been involved with almost every facet of Informix since 1995, and
have always been connected to customers. And that crowd includes many
that post here on CDI too. Take a survey...many of us have authored or
co-authored books (me, Ron, Lester, ...) Many of us have received
recognition from the IIUG and IBM for our efforts (me, Art, Jonathon,
John M...). Many of us have written for DeveloperWorks (me, Jacques,
Madison...), and actually been paid for our efforts. Many of us have
written articles. And last I checked, none of my publishing, scripting,
whatever had anything to do with Wal-Mart. Like I said - there is a
"team" of us that do this - because we have passion and want to make a
contribution that is positive and can stand a chance to further the
technology.
Wanna join us? If not - I wish you the best, and hate to see another
Informix cronie head down the "other product road". Sad but true, we
all know it is happening. But those of us who have chosen to stay will
continue to stay the course...just like it's always been....from way
back....from 1995 for me and earlier for some.
My family has grown from 4 teenagers when I started to now 4 grown-kids
and 4 grandkids. And I am still making a living with the product I have
given 13 years to...
Mark Scranton
Informix 1995-2006
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Mark Scranton Informix 1995-2006
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Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformixIDS Release..
RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,TheNextInformix IDS Relea
